Advice for Espresso Machine
Hi Everyone,
I'm starting a cafe in Lawrence, Massachusetts, and would like advice for what to buy for a good automatic 2-group espresso machine for somewhere around $5,000. My ideal preference would be to lease a machine but am having a hard time finding places that will lease to a start-up... any experience with this? Know anyone who does leasing? If I could lease one I could afford one that's a little more pricey.
Thanks!
-Missy
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Shadow on
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Well I have been using a 2 group Nuova Simonelli Aurelia auto daily for about 4 months and it is the bomb for me. A new one is out of that price range, but I have seen nice used ones priced OK. I'm sure there are lots of good commercial machines out there to suit your budget, just glad I have the Aurelia as it does all I expect it to without question and has some nice features not found on other machines.
Any particular reason you want an auto? Even though our Aurelia is an auto I still control all shots manually, as I feel time/volume can't replace a watchful eye or one's tasting ability. The extraction is the most important part of the drink and I simply won't let anything control it other than myself.
Have nothing to add on the leasing though.. sorry. Later!
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Permalink Reply by James Liu on
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Consider an ex-Starbucks 4-group La Marzocco Linea. It's the cheapest way into La Marzocco, and you can get away with less than $5000 easy.
And you'll discover why you wanted a La Marzocco two years down the line.
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Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on
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Dude what is the big deal with the Linea? I worked on one for about 8 months and saw nothing impressive about it. Like an oversized polished turd if you ask me... then I was asked if I wanted to buy it. HARDLY!
And I surely wouldn't waste space on a 4 group regardless of brand. Later!
James Liu said:Consider an ex-Starbucks 4-group La Marzocco Linea. It's the cheapest way into La Marzocco, and you can get away with less than $5000 easy.
And you'll discover why you wanted a La Marzocco two years down the line.
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Permalink Reply by Missy Carroll on
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I was just thinking an automatic would be easier for my staff to learn and for consistency. We're a full service cafe with full kitchen; we'll probably serve more food and brewed coffee then espressos and we also also have a liquor license...so I thought it would be easier for my staff to learn since they'll have to be knowledgeable in our food, alcoholic drinks, as well as the espressos. But...I'm still up in the air about it a little and would be willing to give a semi-auto a try if the price and quality are right.
Shadow said:Well I have been using a 2 group Nuova Simonelli Aurelia auto daily for about 4 months and it is the bomb for me. A new one is out of that price range, but I have seen nice used ones priced OK. I'm sure there are lots of good commercial machines out there to suit your budget, just glad I have the Aurelia as it does all I expect it to without question and has some nice features not found on other machines.
Any particular reason you want an auto? Even though our Aurelia is an auto I still control all shots manually, as I feel time/volume can't replace a watchful eye or one's tasting ability. The extraction is the most important part of the drink and I simply won't let anything control it other than myself.
Have nothing to add on the leasing though.. sorry. Later!
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Permalink Reply by Mark Jackson on
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Missy,
The key is how many drinks a day and also as important the most you need to make in a row. Do you want your staff to be baristas and will they have the time or the passion to be competent. If you are talking an automatic do you mean super auto where the machine makes the drink from start to finish including milk. There are options in that price range like the Franke Flair. Can do up to 100 drinks a day but it is not fast and it was not meant to make many drinks in a row. A good automatic traditional machine where you need to grind, tamp and steam the milk by hand a 2 group machine with grinders will be a little over 5000. It also requires a lot of skill and training to be good, as well as hopefully consistent. Leasing for start up is really hard right now with very high interest rates over 25% even with stellar credit but it can be done. Work with your accountant to see if it makes sense for you to do . They can tell you if there is a way to write some off based on how you are set up as a company and if it even makes sense.
The other thing is if you are going to be mostly food based and you are busy will the staff even try to sell the drinks if they know they have to make them and it will take them time to do so. Even if they have time are they comfortable making the drinks? Even if they have time,are comfortable, will they still make a great drink or do they care. Those are all the tough questions. A lot depends sadly enough on how well they are trained as well as how well you hire. There are machines to suit everyone's needs based on volume and skill levels. The important thing is really what is the best machine to get your customers good consistent drinks quickly and within the skill level of your staff.
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Permalink Reply by Jacob Casella on
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I must defend the Linea's honor! I've had nothing but good experiences with a few different Linea's of varying ages, 2 and 4 groups. Super solid machines. As to the 4-group...how busy do you expect to be? I've definitely had many days where 4 groups was not enough. That said, if you're not building towards high volume, there are probably fancier 2-groups than a Linea, prettier anyway.
Shadow said:Dude what is the big deal with the Linea? I worked on one for about 8 months and saw nothing impressive about it. Like an oversized polished turd if you ask me... then I was asked if I wanted to buy it. HARDLY!
And I surely wouldn't waste space on a 4 group regardless of brand. Later!
James Liu said:Consider an ex-Starbucks 4-group La Marzocco Linea. It's the cheapest way into La Marzocco, and you can get away with less than $5000 easy.
And you'll discover why you wanted a La Marzocco two years down the line.
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Perrine on
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My company is a retailer for Astoria. We could have one dropped shipped to you. There are a few on the line-up that we could get you for around this price.
email us if you're interested:
info@pearlandcoffeeroasters.com
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Permalink Reply by Mitch Buckner - Bella Caffe on
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I have a nice brand new Astra Mega 2 Automatic available in the 4000.00 range if you're interested. Great machine. I've been using using Astra machines hard for years & they work great. Im in the catering & concessions business so my machines get put through some hard times!
Mitch Buckner
Bella Caffe
bellacaffe@gmail.com
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Permalink Reply by Alex Galt on
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I paid less than that for a three group Linea semi automatic, used. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Here are some considerations...
1. A two group machine for a restaurant is probably completely adequate. We're similar to you in that we do more than 50% in food sales, we seldom are doing more than two drinks at a time. Our third group comes in handy about 10% of the time, and we could probably do without it. (I do like having it though). It mostly comes into play during street festivals and the like. Oh, and it's nice to have three groups if you're purocaffing in the afternoon.
2. Lineas are pretty great. Prior to the linea we had a Rancilio, and it just could not keep up with the volume of steam during peaks. That was really frustrating. The linea on the other hand... it's really, really consistent and dependable.
3. We have the semi-auto (there are push buttons), but we ignore those features and use the manual switches. I'd encourage you to do the same because it requires that the barista pay attention to the grind.
4. Speaking of grinders... there will be some naysayers (probably) but I would advocate for (if you go with a linea) a Swift grinder. (Sorry for so many paranthetical statements!) We found that with so many people making drinks during a shift, that we were able to get more consistent results with the Swift because it eliminates personal tamping styles from the equation. We do keep a Mazzer around for special espressos, however. Before the Swift, we were constantly adjusting the grind because one person tamps slightly differently then the other. Our entire staff is very well trained, but even so... we're just not set up in such a way that we have one barista per shift.
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Georgia,
Thanks for the tip about bay state espresso! I will definately look into that since my preference is to lease the machine- to get the service included like you said and lower a few of our many start-up costs. As for beans- we are going to be roasting in-house and plan to buy the green beans from Cafe Compesino.
Alex, thanks for the tips, I will consider all the things you brought up!
-Missy
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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on
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On The Subject of Lineas:
Perhaps there are those who would argue that I don't know my craft, but I certainly think that the La Marzocco Linea is a superior espresso machine, that is in many ways preferable to the newer GB5/FB80 models. Either way, I currently own three Lineas and plan on buying newer La Marzocco machines for the foreseeable future. Anyone who thinks that a Linea is a "turd" either has worked with a bad example of one or doesn't know the craft.
Leasing equipment isn't too hard. In fact, there's a whole industry built around leasing equipment to the foodservice industry so you shouldn't have much difficulty finding someone you can work with. Google can be your friend, as well as your local restaurant association or foodservice equipment dealer.
However, I've been working with Chris Cardillo from Innovative Capitol, based in North Carolina (my company is based in Maryland). They have been great to work with and I recommend them. Chris put together the equipment financing package for my newest coffee shop. He can be reached: 888-869-0070 x203
The question of SuperAuto or SemiAuto is up to you. I don't think very highly of places with SuperAuto machines because it's a hallmark of major compromises to their coffee quality and I wouldn't waste my time, money or taste buds. However, the choice is yours to make based on a variety of factors like: commitment to craft, commitment to training, commitment to quality and seriousness of program.
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