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Permalink Reply by nick placakis on November 20, 2011 at 1:00pm

Please correct me if I am wrong however I believe this is a health department violation. I do not think milk can be put into a pump system such as an airpot. Can anyone else confirm or deny this.

 

Nick

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Permalink Reply by Phil Roberts on November 20, 2011 at 6:22pm

Nick,

 

Im not exactly sure about that, but I think you are on the right track. I think the hot chocolate (milk product) needs to be kept in something that regulates the temp above a certain point. They make hot chocolate dispensers for this very reason. Airpots only minimize the heat loss, but they don't maintain a certain temp. The hot chocolate dispensers both heat and stir the hot chocolate to keep keep it consistent, which is why they are very expensive. We used a couple of them in a shop in Boston without any violations. You basically need to keep it below 42 degrees or above 155 degrees (the danger zone!)

nick placakis said:

Please correct me if I am wrong however I believe this is a health department violation. I do not think milk can be put into a pump system such as an airpot. Can anyone else confirm or deny this.

 

Nick

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Permalink Reply by nick placakis on November 20, 2011 at 8:37pm

That makes sense Phil. So you couldn't use a conventional airpot to leave milk out for use at a condament bar correct? I think that's what I remember reading or hearing.

 

Nick

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Permalink Reply by Brady on November 21, 2011 at 6:21pm

Let's go with 40-140 deg-F instead, which is what the USDA calls "the danger zone". I do agree with what you've said though.

 

From a temp standpoint, you could probably hold hot chocolate in a good airpot for a couple of hours - provided the airpot was properly preheated, the hot chocolate went in as hot as you can serve it, and the ambient temperature isn't too low. Monitor the temp of the stuff coming out and don't serve it below 140.

 

As far as product quality, you may actually see an improvement with hot holding. This based on a conversation with a chocolate supplier a while back. Gonna have to dig up more on that.

 

To me, the big issue with storing stuff like milk in containers is cleanability. To be safe, you need to be able to physically clean all of the surfaces that the milk has touched. Tough to do with the stem of an airpot. That's kind of a dealbreaker.

Phil Roberts said:

Nick,

 

Im not exactly sure about that, but I think you are on the right track. I think the hot chocolate (milk product) needs to be kept in something that regulates the temp above a certain point. They make hot chocolate dispensers for this very reason. Airpots only minimize the heat loss, but they don't maintain a certain temp. The hot chocolate dispensers both heat and stir the hot chocolate to keep keep it consistent, which is why they are very expensive. We used a couple of them in a shop in Boston without any violations. You basically need to keep it below 42 degrees or above 155 degrees (the danger zone!)

nick placakis said:

Please correct me if I am wrong however I believe this is a health department violation. I do not think milk can be put into a pump system such as an airpot. Can anyone else confirm or deny this.

 

Nick

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Phil Roberts on November 21, 2011 at 11:42pm

Thanks Brady... At the ServeSafe class, as soon as they called that temp range the danger zone, I had that song stuck in my head and wanted to watch Top Gun!

Bad thing about serving hot chocolate at 140 though is that it isn't really hot enough to enjoy as hot chocolate!


Brady said:

Let's go with 40-140 deg-F instead, which is what the USDA calls "the danger zone". I do agree with what you've said though.

 

From a temp standpoint, you could probably hold hot chocolate in a good airpot for a couple of hours - provided the airpot was properly preheated, the hot chocolate went in as hot as you can serve it, and the ambient temperature isn't too low. Monitor the temp of the stuff coming out and don't serve it below 140.

 

As far as product quality, you may actually see an improvement with hot holding. This based on a conversation with a chocolate supplier a while back. Gonna have to dig up more on that.

 

To me, the big issue with storing stuff like milk in containers is cleanability. To be safe, you need to be able to physically clean all of the surfaces that the milk has touched. Tough to do with the stem of an airpot. That's kind of a dealbreaker.

Phil Roberts said:

Nick,

 

Im not exactly sure about that, but I think you are on the right track. I think the hot chocolate (milk product) needs to be kept in something that regulates the temp above a certain point. They make hot chocolate dispensers for this very reason. Airpots only minimize the heat loss, but they don't maintain a certain temp. The hot chocolate dispensers both heat and stir the hot chocolate to keep keep it consistent, which is why they are very expensive. We used a couple of them in a shop in Boston without any violations. You basically need to keep it below 42 degrees or above 155 degrees (the danger zone!)

nick placakis said:

Please correct me if I am wrong however I believe this is a health department violation. I do not think milk can be put into a pump system such as an airpot. Can anyone else confirm or deny this.

 

Nick

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by barista Dan on November 22, 2011 at 5:18pm

what about a percolator pot?

Phil Roberts said:

Thanks Brady... At the ServeSafe class, as soon as they called that temp range the danger zone, I had that song stuck in my head and wanted to watch Top Gun!

Bad thing about serving hot chocolate at 140 though is that it isn't really hot enough to enjoy as hot chocolate!


Brady said:

Let's go with 40-140 deg-F instead, which is what the USDA calls "the danger zone". I do agree with what you've said though.

 

From a temp standpoint, you could probably hold hot chocolate in a good airpot for a couple of hours - provided the airpot was properly preheated, the hot chocolate went in as hot as you can serve it, and the ambient temperature isn't too low. Monitor the temp of the stuff coming out and don't serve it below 140.

 

As far as product quality, you may actually see an improvement with hot holding. This based on a conversation with a chocolate supplier a while back. Gonna have to dig up more on that.

 

To me, the big issue with storing stuff like milk in containers is cleanability. To be safe, you need to be able to physically clean all of the surfaces that the milk has touched. Tough to do with the stem of an airpot. That's kind of a dealbreaker.

Phil Roberts said:

Nick,

 

Im not exactly sure about that, but I think you are on the right track. I think the hot chocolate (milk product) needs to be kept in something that regulates the temp above a certain point. They make hot chocolate dispensers for this very reason. Airpots only minimize the heat loss, but they don't maintain a certain temp. The hot chocolate dispensers both heat and stir the hot chocolate to keep keep it consistent, which is why they are very expensive. We used a couple of them in a shop in Boston without any violations. You basically need to keep it below 42 degrees or above 155 degrees (the danger zone!)

nick placakis said:

Please correct me if I am wrong however I believe this is a health department violation. I do not think milk can be put into a pump system such as an airpot. Can anyone else confirm or deny this.

 

Nick

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Phil Roberts on November 23, 2011 at 7:20am

Dan, I just think it is dangerous to use any of that type of coffee equipment for anything other than it's intended purpose. I know some of the equipment can be very expensive, but it is generally because it is a once in a very long time purchase!

 

Phil

barista Dan said:

what about a percolator pot?

Phil Roberts said:

Thanks Brady... At the ServeSafe class, as soon as they called that temp range the danger zone, I had that song stuck in my head and wanted to watch Top Gun!

Bad thing about serving hot chocolate at 140 though is that it isn't really hot enough to enjoy as hot chocolate!


Brady said:

Let's go with 40-140 deg-F instead, which is what the USDA calls "the danger zone". I do agree with what you've said though.

 

From a temp standpoint, you could probably hold hot chocolate in a good airpot for a couple of hours - provided the airpot was properly preheated, the hot chocolate went in as hot as you can serve it, and the ambient temperature isn't too low. Monitor the temp of the stuff coming out and don't serve it below 140.

 

As far as product quality, you may actually see an improvement with hot holding. This based on a conversation with a chocolate supplier a while back. Gonna have to dig up more on that.

 

To me, the big issue with storing stuff like milk in containers is cleanability. To be safe, you need to be able to physically clean all of the surfaces that the milk has touched. Tough to do with the stem of an airpot. That's kind of a dealbreaker.

Phil Roberts said:

Nick,

 

Im not exactly sure about that, but I think you are on the right track. I think the hot chocolate (milk product) needs to be kept in something that regulates the temp above a certain point. They make hot chocolate dispensers for this very reason. Airpots only minimize the heat loss, but they don't maintain a certain temp. The hot chocolate dispensers both heat and stir the hot chocolate to keep keep it consistent, which is why they are very expensive. We used a couple of them in a shop in Boston without any violations. You basically need to keep it below 42 degrees or above 155 degrees (the danger zone!)

nick placakis said:

Please correct me if I am wrong however I believe this is a health department violation. I do not think milk can be put into a pump system such as an airpot. Can anyone else confirm or deny this.

 

Nick

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Permalink Reply by TJ Mort on November 28, 2011 at 6:34am

Thanks everyone!  Great responses!  Very helpful!

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