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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on January 14, 2010 at 11:07pm

ER-

Actually, while other baristas like the "thwacking," I do not. To me, loud and excessive thwacking is a demonstration of poor craft control. I prefer quiet dosing instead of the machine gun like thwacking we see (hear) in so many coffee shops. I prefer finesse.

The 1st gen Compak K10 that was imported into the United States back in 2006 actually had a molded plastic portafilter "fork" that held the PF in place - sans hands. While the shape collected stray coffee grounds and required a more studious approach to brushing clean, the convenience was unparalleled.

Sadly, that feature went away (along with a few other changes) as Compak followed the barista trend and the barista tendencies toward components of the Mazzer line of grinders.

Espresso Rescue said:

Are there any brands of doserless grinders that have a holder or platform for the PF so you dont have to stand there and hold it? Seems like that plus some kind of anti-clumping device would be perfect! I've tried a Mazzer Mini doserless that's been moded and it shoots the coffee out too fast.
Jay, I understand about the thwacking..goes along with knocking the PF.Just don't know if those simple pleasures are worth the "cons" of the doser. Hm.

Jay Caragay said:

There are a growing number of nice doserless grinders but I'm having trouble being very enthusiastic about them.

While they solve a number of issues, my concern lies with service and production. Yes, we grind to order and brush the doser regularly - but the main glory of the dosing grinder is the ability to grind and do something else while the shot is grinding, i.e. multitasking. It may take 5-7 seconds for the shot to grind, and in those few seconds, I can get quite a bit set up and done for the drink at hand. I value that ability over having to stand there, with portafilter in my hand, waiting for the grind.

YMMV.

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Permalink Reply by Shadow on January 15, 2010 at 3:01am

Well I really like the look and function of the Mahlkonig K30 and will probably go that route in the near future. Grind only what you need on demand with minimal waste and retention, also very quick at what it does. I currently use a Nuova Simonelli MDX, which is a simple workhorse that gets the job done and I like the stepless micrometric adjustability. It does have the usual doser and I find it to work just fine. Regardless of how busy we get I still grind per shot, running the grinder only as long as needed and dosing everything that is in the doser for each shot. There really is nothing leftover between shots. I might wear that doser out by thwacking the lever 8-10 times for a simple 16 gram double, but I never get stale shots either.

If you train others to run a dosered grinder to grind and dispense only what is needed per order then I see no problem with them. BUT I have been in too many espresso bars where the doser is left half full MINIMUM just because they anticipate a crowd. Some could've had automatic functions in play on those grinders though.... Still don't get that because if you get heavy customer flow you can still find time to run the grinder an extra bit while dosing, tamping, extracting, etc.. to make up for it. There simply is no reason for grounds to sit in a doser going stale.

My only issue with most grinders is how you get stale grounds that sit in the throat overnight and must be flushed out. It is the nature of the beast, but I hate to waste coffee period. Later!

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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on January 15, 2010 at 6:03pm

Doser or doserless there shouldn't be waste. If you can dial in a doserless to dump only as much as you need you should be able to do it with a grinder that has a doser. If you have trouble with waste then put the grinder on a photo lab timer, problem solved.

If there isn't coffee in the doser then freshness becomes just as much an issue with doserless models as it does a grinder with a doser.

And Jay, I hear ya (get it... hear) I thwack to get the coffee that usually clings to the sidewalls to drop... and, of course, because it makes you look cool... haha. jk

-bry

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Permalink Reply by Espresso Rescue on January 15, 2010 at 10:49pm

I suppose we should all just get Swifts and all our problems will be solved!! (except Bry will need a soundtrack of thwacking for coolness effect) Thanks for the thoughts, guys
ER

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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on January 15, 2010 at 11:05pm

If Swifts weren't on the lame side (and also if they had a speaker system for my thwacking needs) then life would be grand, haha.

My vote is just that we all go super-autos... the only waste there is the finished product. :)

-bry

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Permalink Reply by Jason Haeger on January 16, 2010 at 9:54am

Swifts are terrible. You have to do the wrong thing to get it to do the "right" thing. The result is inherently flawed.

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Permalink Reply by Chris on January 16, 2010 at 12:51pm

Multiple thwacks while grinding helps to keep the coffee from clumping. Some grinders need it, some not so much, but of fluffs and settles grounds.
A good barista will know this and thwack as necessary, damned the noise, it's the resulting cup that counts, while others continue to quietly dose a solid lump of ground in one dose.
Horses for course. My Major does really well, grinds tend not to clump. Black Cat works really well lately, as does the PT's Colombia El Palacio that I've been playing with, but the Evil Twin form Ritual has been giving me a slight clumping issue that thwacking solves.
I've discovered a fairly new technique, though, at least to me, on a video on HB of all places. It was a barista get together, and one of the baristi put a thumb on one of the screws on the front of the doser and squeezed the handle instead of pulling it. Probably just trading one RSI for another, but it's quieter, and probably will make the dosing mechanism last a millennium instead of just centuries... Still thwacking, but quieter and gets the Major rocking a bit less.

Soon there will be either a straight through design breakthrough that will allow dosing in bean form and grinding straight through the burrs into the basket, or an angled burr/motor design that will have the beans enter at a right angle to the exit, and the exit tilted to be more 'gravity friendly' to allow grounds to fall, instead of be pushed by a doser vane or thrown by centrifugal force, into the basket. 'Til then, though, it seems that the choice is to eschew any blend or bean that has a clumping tendency, or thwack.

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Permalink Reply by Alicia (Mini) on January 16, 2010 at 3:13pm

I agree Jay Caragay, I love being able to dose it because its more hands on, I almost want to say even though the shots are amazing on the doser-less grinders it makes me feel cheapened because I know I could also be dosing it and not need a machine to do it for me.
I'm still undesided if I like them or not..
Jay Caragay said:

There are a growing number of nice doserless grinders but I'm having trouble being very enthusiastic about them.

While they solve a number of issues, my concern lies with service and production. Yes, we grind to order and brush the doser regularly - but the main glory of the dosing grinder is the ability to grind and do something else while the shot is grinding, i.e. multitasking. It may take 5-7 seconds for the shot to grind, and in those few seconds, I can get quite a bit set up and done for the drink at hand. I value that ability over having to stand there, with portafilter in my hand, waiting for the grind.

YMMV.

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