barista with/without machine
i am just new to this world of coffee.all along i was known for my love for coffee and tea.i was also made to believe that i make good coffee and tea (by all friends and relatives who were not exposed to good coffee shops).though i had my cups at 'coffee day','barista' and others but was never knowing that making and preparing a coffee is such good an art and expertisethat that it will compel me to learn it to enjoy making coffee. i have a question-
if a good cup of coffee is achieved then how much credit is to barista and how much to machine?
if a good cup of coffee is achieved then how much credit is to barista and how much to machine?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matthew Gasaway on
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I thought 3rd Wave was all about making apparent the use of Quality Coffee
I'm always very pleased to tell customers what coffee from what roaster they are tasting.
Thats only one way to look at 3rd wave(pretty much stereotyping it). And it's not the way I see it.
But yes I agree, credit should be placed on quality coffee beans.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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Kayakman said:This may be a controversial answer...
That, my friend, is an understatement.
First, lets please put all references to over-wrought, overused, and problematic stereotypes aside. That's another discussion, best left there.
True that it is a mistake to credit the barista with creating something that wasn't there in the first place. HOWEVER I feel it is also a mistake to understate the importance of knowing how to handle the bean properly to let it shine.
My answer to the OP's question is that it is all three factors working together, bean first, barista second, equipment last. Within "bean" I'm including all steps to get to the roasted product - farmer, processing, selection, roasting... those are critical.
Why put barista over equipment? Because a knowledgeable and skilled operator with lousy equipment can make a better cup than an unskilled operator with top-notch equipment. The equipment itself does nothing... it doesn't choose a grind, water temperature, extraction time, agitation. It doesn't choose its own coffee, or select itself as the best method for preparation of that coffee.
Look, I understand what you are getting at - a barista with an arrogant and superior attitude is annoying. That does not change the fact that there's a significant contribution being made by the operator.
My 2 cents.
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Permalink Reply by Greg Hill on
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totally agree brady. ive been "fortunate" enough to work on some pretty crappy machines, currently a heavily modded/de-modded 110V pavoni pos. seriously, the light kit wiring is melted to the frame...
anyways, no one can pull a good shot with a bad bean, but give a skilled a hand 10 minutes on almost any setup and youll have some tasty bevs.
Brady said:Kayakman said:This may be a controversial answer...
That, my friend, is an understatement.
First, lets please put all references to over-wrought, overused, and problematic stereotypes aside. That's another discussion, best left there.
True that it is a mistake to credit the barista with creating something that wasn't there in the first place. HOWEVER I feel it is also a mistake to understate the importance of knowing how to handle the bean properly to let it shine.
My answer to the OP's question is that it is all three factors working together, bean first, barista second, equipment last. Within "bean" I'm including all steps to get to the roasted product - farmer, processing, selection, roasting... those are critical.
Why put barista over equipment? Because a knowledgeable and skilled operator with lousy equipment can make a better cup than an unskilled operator with top-notch equipment. The equipment itself does nothing... it doesn't choose a grind, water temperature, extraction time, agitation. It doesn't choose its own coffee, or select itself as the best method for preparation of that coffee.
Look, I understand what you are getting at - a barista with an arrogant and superior attitude is annoying. That does not change the fact that there's a significant contribution being made by the operator.
My 2 cents.
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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First I must say I feel jipped missing the controversial answer which must have been deleted before purusing this thread!
Since the OP's direct question was credit to barista or machine (though apparently the bean got tossed in) I'll agree with answers given that a skilled hand can brew well with about anything while an unskilled hand may well brew dreck with the finest equipment. The skill to use any equipment well is more important than the equipment itself. That said the better the equipment the easier it is for the skilled hand to make it do what it's supposed to do, which is make the bean sing.
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Permalink Reply by victoria fallon on
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well said and worth more than two cents!
So much work goes into hand crafted artisan foods that in the end it commands a level of respect. Like any artisan product, be it a hand crafted wheel of cheese, a 40 day aged prime cut of rib eye or a coffee bean, it is important to do justice to the product ...respect it. So like the cheesemonger or the chef a barista carries that responsibilty.
Brady said:Kayakman said:This may be a controversial answer...
That, my friend, is an understatement.
First, lets please put all references to over-wrought, overused, and problematic stereotypes aside. That's another discussion, best left there.
True that it is a mistake to credit the barista with creating something that wasn't there in the first place. HOWEVER I feel it is also a mistake to understate the importance of knowing how to handle the bean properly to let it shine.
My answer to the OP's question is that it is all three factors working together, bean first, barista second, equipment last. Within "bean" I'm including all steps to get to the roasted product - farmer, processing, selection, roasting... those are critical.
Why put barista over equipment? Because a knowledgeable and skilled operator with lousy equipment can make a better cup than an unskilled operator with top-notch equipment. The equipment itself does nothing... it doesn't choose a grind, water temperature, extraction time, agitation. It doesn't choose its own coffee, or select itself as the best method for preparation of that coffee.
Look, I understand what you are getting at - a barista with an arrogant and superior attitude is annoying. That does not change the fact that there's a significant contribution being made by the operator.
My 2 cents.
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miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:First I must say I feel jipped missing the controversial answer which must have been deleted before purusing this thread!
Since the OP's direct question was credit to barista or machine (though apparently the bean got tossed in) I'll agree with answers given that a skilled hand can brew well with about anything while an unskilled hand may well brew dreck with the finest equipment. The skill to use any equipment well is more important than the equipment itself. That said the better the equipment the easier it is for the skilled hand to make it do what it's supposed to do, which is make the bean sing.
It disappeared along with everything else he'd written when he left the community. Which is unfortunate, cause he'd written some good posts. As I recall though, this wasn't one of them. It was a wide-ranging rant against the stereotypical hipster barista, third-wave coffeehouses, SO espresso, etc... classic Kayakman material. As you might suspect from my reply, it gave almost no credit to the barista. Nothing to feel too jipped about having missed.
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Perrine on
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I was wandering what happened to him. Haven't heard anything in a while. Guess he was tired of not getting any suitable answers (I say that in jest). Oh well.
Don't want to hijack this discussion.
I agree whole heartedly with Brady.
Brady said:miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:First I must say I feel jipped missing the controversial answer which must have been deleted before purusing this thread!
Since the OP's direct question was credit to barista or machine (though apparently the bean got tossed in) I'll agree with answers given that a skilled hand can brew well with about anything while an unskilled hand may well brew dreck with the finest equipment. The skill to use any equipment well is more important than the equipment itself. That said the better the equipment the easier it is for the skilled hand to make it do what it's supposed to do, which is make the bean sing.
It disappeared along with everything else he'd written when he left the community. Which is unfortunate, cause he'd written some good posts. As I recall though, this wasn't one of them. It was a wide-ranging rant against the stereotypical hipster barista, third-wave coffeehouses, SO espresso, etc... classic Kayakman material. As you might suspect from my reply, it gave almost no credit to the barista. Nothing to feel too jipped about having missed.
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Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on
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AHHHHHHHH BARISTA EXCHANGES AND TRAVEL FORUM AHHHHHHHHH
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Permalink Reply by mayank surana on
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thank you all.surprised and shocked to see replies after a looooong gap.it was just not expected by me but surely made me feel good. thank you because i am stiil there to hear you all.
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