Brewing Chemex for Airpot?
I am working on my menu in my shop, and am trying to decide about my brewing offerings. I will be having a pourover bar, rather than airpots of mechanical drip coffee, due to my commitment to providing the freshest cup possible. I plan to have a drip station, Chemex, French Press, and possible Aeropress (I realize that few shops use this as a brewing method. I know of one.) I realize that some shops brew French press to pour into airpots, primarily to get them through the rush. However, I am wondering if it is possible to do this with Chemex?
I am currently using my new 8 oz. Chemex at home, learning the brewing process. Based on Jason Dominy's recommendation, I am using 55 grams of ground coffee, and 25 oz of hot water. My pour pattern is 5 oz, water, bloom, 10 oz., wait, 10 oz.
If I wanted to double this, for instance, would I simply double the coffee and water, follow the same pour pattern while adjusting the pour quantity? Or am I risking overextraction? Eventually, one will be unable to hit that 4 minute extraction window. So how far can I take it?
I am not opposed to using French press as the main brewing procedure for airpots during the busy time of the day, but am not familiar with this process. I can brew enough French Press for my wife and I, but I have never attempted a large press worth.
Also, while this has been addressed, I would like some clarification. I know Bunn and Curtis make water towers. Does anyone else? What water tower do you like most, and why?
I am currently using my new 8 oz. Chemex at home, learning the brewing process. Based on Jason Dominy's recommendation, I am using 55 grams of ground coffee, and 25 oz of hot water. My pour pattern is 5 oz, water, bloom, 10 oz., wait, 10 oz.
If I wanted to double this, for instance, would I simply double the coffee and water, follow the same pour pattern while adjusting the pour quantity? Or am I risking overextraction? Eventually, one will be unable to hit that 4 minute extraction window. So how far can I take it?
I am not opposed to using French press as the main brewing procedure for airpots during the busy time of the day, but am not familiar with this process. I can brew enough French Press for my wife and I, but I have never attempted a large press worth.
Also, while this has been addressed, I would like some clarification. I know Bunn and Curtis make water towers. Does anyone else? What water tower do you like most, and why?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Jeremy Conley on
-
A couple of 13 cup Chemexes (65 ounces) brewed simultaneously, dosed at roughly 60g per liter —roughly 120g, give or take— would do the trick for a 3-5 liter airpot. Just keep in mind that as your dosing increases your grind needs to go more toward coarse.
-
Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on
-
what i've found is that the problem isn't traditional drip brewing - it's the airpots. anything sitting for more than half an hour gets funky tasting. if i brew a 2.2 litre airpot of our colombian at 60g/l and taste it immediately, it's really nice. if i let it sit for half an hour to 45 mins, it's less nice. i would imagine the same thing would happen with pouring chemexes into an airpot. people seem to be pretty happy waiting for pourovers at the moment - if they want a chemex it's usually to split between two people and they sit down with it.
-
Permalink Reply by Simon Ouderkirk on
-
At risk of sounding distinctly Raoian, I would say Jared is right on about coffee that's sat for over 45 minutes is going to taste a bit gnarly - and that's excellent first-hand empirical evidence to support the argument that you shouldn't serve coffee that has sat for 45 minutes.
If your primary goal is to provide excellent coffee at its freshest, I think that creating a system of Chemexes and French Presses such that you can continually provide coffee to your morning rush (or whenever your rush is) would be preferable to pouring said coffee into air pots. This would probably take a large number of French Presses and pour-over stations to work effectively, and only then after significant experimentation and creation of efficiency systems. If having the freshest coffee is a secondary goal to convenience and ease of operation (no shame in that!) then perhaps using air pots in a limited way to handle your busiest times would be a better idea.
It will come down to experimentation and what kind of staff you have, I'd imagine.
-
Permalink Reply by James Liu on
-
Definitely the airpots are the problem. And it's not 45 minutes in an airpot. It's 5 minutes in an airpot.
-
-
A syphon bar could be a great solution —it's fairly easy for one person to have several syphon brewers going at once.
Simon Ouderkirk said:At risk of sounding distinctly Raoian, I would say Jared is right on about coffee that's sat for over 45 minutes is going to taste a bit gnarly - and that's excellent first-hand empirical evidence to support the argument that you shouldn't serve coffee that has sat for 45 minutes.
If your primary goal is to provide excellent coffee at its freshest, I think that creating a system of Chemexes and French Presses such that you can continually provide coffee to your morning rush (or whenever your rush is) would be preferable to pouring said coffee into air pots. This would probably take a large number of French Presses and pour-over stations to work effectively, and only then after significant experimentation and creation of efficiency systems. If having the freshest coffee is a secondary goal to convenience and ease of operation (no shame in that!) then perhaps using air pots in a limited way to handle your busiest times would be a better idea.
It will come down to experimentation and what kind of staff you have, I'd imagine.
-
Permalink Reply by Steve Belt on
-
No one answered your water tower question, Jason, but I've been looking at the Fetco water towers, personally.
-
-
i use zojirushi 5 litre water towers and they're nice. cheap and easy to use
-
Permalink Reply by Paul Yates on
-
Jared, how often do you have to refill those? Most of the commercial towers are plumbed in, and the Zojirushi is pourover only, unless I didn't read the description at EspressoParts correctly. I love the idea of always full, always hot, but the price difference is compelling.
I notice that Bunn seems to be a bit cheaper than Fetco and Wilbur Curtis. Does anyone have any specific models they would recommend over another?
Regarding the airpot question, if I had the well-established coffee community that some shops operate in, I think I could pull off made to order only, due to the expectations of the customers. Here, I have to build that knowledge from the ground up, which means I will have to deal with people expecting their cup of coffee immediately. Of course, that also gives me the opportunity to educate customers from the get-go.
Based on BXer's experience with a small-town, slower-paced shop, where I can visualize serving a maximum of 30-40 people an hour during the peak times, what would be the best staffing solution were I to go custom-brewed all the way? One person on register, one on espresso machine, one on pourover/French press, with a little bit of overlap or job swapping? Or could I swing it with two really competent people?
If I could avoid the airpots entirely, that would suit me fine, as I really think Chemex, drip bar, or press are far superior brewing options. I brew good coffee in my Fetco brewer at work, but it doesn't hold a candle to my Chemex or Aeropress.
-
Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
-
I've been using two 5L Zoji's for a couple years. They are indeed good for what they are, pour over filled. Critical if using Zoji's to work out of only ONE and swap them. Why? They take about 45min to heat to 208f from full fill. There are times when really busy at the pour over, Americano water, tea water where it's barely enough time. 5L is only 1.32 gallons. Constantly filling them can become quite tiresome, and when someone forgets to fill the swapped out unit then it's time to steam pitchers of water. Which is why I know it takes 90 seconds to bring 1/2 gal of tap cold water to a boil with my 3gr Linea, which is quite noisy and disruptive of cafe atomosphere.
I would not purchase any water tower that did not have adjustable temperature. Well, not true. I've recently purchased 3 used Bunn towers (two 2 gal, one 5 gal) that are not, but they won't go into service until PID control added:-)
Staffing wise, 2 people at most should be able to handle 30 to 40 people an hour unless includes preparing food too. Really depends on what those 30 to 40 are buying AND what is going in the register. The register rules when it comes to staffing or the doors close. ONE person should be able to handle periodic $100+ per hour rushes, though not long term consistently. Black Friday was deader than a door nail the first 7 hours so I let all the rest of the staff go. Then at 2:10 the shit hit the fan with beverage and food orders (deli & panini sandwiches, salads etc. all made to order.) I did $230 between 2:10 to 3:45 by myself. Obviously not ideal, ran out of clean water glasses 3:30, all 4 dish busses full, more dishes left on tables. Took well past normal close time to get everything cleaned up and ready for the next day. But it was a good thing, I'd lost about $75 in labor versus Register the first 7 hours with employees on shift.
Every market there are customers with the want it now attitude. It's your shop, you decide your model. Quality first no matter what or 7-11 speed. I don't do airpots, period. Be known for the freshest cup in town, word gets around.
-
-
i use two zojirushis, one heating and one hot all the time. then i just swap and fill as necessary. if i get in a bind i can always use my fetco's hot water spigot - it's 205ish also. but we're not looking at doing 30-40 customers during a peak hour either. if you're doing that many, you might be ok brewing an airpot every 15-30 minutes. i disagree with james, i don't think it gets nasty after 5 minutes. if you use it up every 30 you should be fine.
-
-
Water towers. I think the only plumbed in solution worth talking about is the new Curtis. The one with built in aeration and a temperature display. They are built so they can accept 120V or 240V power.
I can't speak to how the aeration affects taste (although I can only imagine that it helps) but that they have just incredible refresh rates under heavy draw. And by heavy draw, I mean gallons at a time being drawn at a time for a special event. Anything short of that, they'll be just fine.
-
Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on
-
Allow me to be a bit antagonistic, but...
I think this argument:
Paul Yates said:J if I had the well-established coffee community that some shops operate in, I think I could pull off made to order only, due to the expectations of the customers. Here, I have to build that knowledge from the ground up, which means I will have to deal with people expecting their cup of coffee immediately.
...is a load of bull - the typical bull that operators spout when making excuses because they're not willing to take it to the fullest. No offense intended on you, Paul.
What I mean by this is that if you are arguing that the people in your area don't know coffee so you'll make these compromises, why not just take that to it's nth degree and offer crappy coffee brewed haphazardly? They don't know the difference - they're used to drinking crap.
Bring your "A" Game and go balls to the wall. You want to do by-the-cup brewing all day long? Then do it. Make it happen. You know that the airpot game is a compromise. Don't do it. Make them wait. Show them why your coffee is special, stellar and blows the doors off your supposed "competition." Some of them don't want to wait, or "can't" wait? Let them drink their 7-Eleven and then hear raves about your coffee later. They'll come back, try it and (hopefully) love it.
The one adage I've learned in business is that it's easier to give than to take away. Give them a three-second coffee for $1.50 when you open and they'll always expect it. And if the day comes that you actually decide to get serious about the coffee and drop the compromises, they'll bitch and moan and it will be ten times worse. Better to start off hardcore and, if it really doesn't work, add the compromises later.
If you're hell-bent on offering larger sizes of Chemex, you're going to need to change your methods as the method for 12z Chemex will not produce an enjoyable cup at 24 ounces. Prepare yourself for a lot of heartbreak and a lot of testing. Two of our baristas spent at least a month developing our Chemex brewing standards.
On the subject of water towers. While I think Zojirushi makes fantastic products, using a Zoji hot water heater will make your production life miserable. Sure the price is nice but the speed is horrible for commercial service on demand. Get yourself a Bunn, Fetco or Curtis water tower. The water is constant, on-demand and always hot. Don't compromise here because you will need the performance of a professional water tower.
I've been using the Bunn 5-gal water tower for over three years. The performance has been excellent. For my new shop, I've spec'd out the Fetco HWB-5 water tower and decided to pass on the Curtis because of dimension issues. To my mind, they're really "six of one, half dozen of the other." Just get one (or more).
Another thing - if you're talking about different brew methods, then you'd better get on them and know them inside and out. Work them out, deduce, test, taste and develop your brewing standards. It's not easy and is going to take some time, so if you're planning on opening soon, you need to get cracking on those.
As far as staffing, that depends on your brew methods, your brewing standards, your menu and your actual volume. The more brewing methods you offer and the more precise each brewing standard is, the more you're probably going to need more staff. The larger and complex the menu, the more staff. And of course, the more volume you have to process, the more staff. Really, without knowing the details of your methods, standards and menu, it's difficult to accurately gauge your staffing needs. Guess anywhere from two to four people, depending.
If staffing is a major issue (and it should be) that you cannot overcome, then perhaps an all French Press service is the way to go. Comparatively speaking, it is the least high maintenance of brewing methods. Just grind the coffee, dump some water, wait a minute, add more water to volume, cap and wait the remainder of four minutes. Just assign a individual timer to each press and press down when it beeps. Simple process that produces tasty coffee - whether you're brewing in bulk for airpot service or individually to order.
Good Hunting!
Barista Exchange Partners
Barista Exchange Friends
Keep Barista Exchange Free
Are you enjoying Barista Exchange? Is it helping you promote your business and helping you network in this great industry? Donate today to keep it free to all members. Supporters can join the "Supporters Group" with a donation. Thanks!
© 2024 Created by Matt Milletto.
Powered by
