Cheap ass customers.
Hey there people,
Just wondering if any of you have some cheap customers that come into your shop.
Over the past couple months I have seen people a few...
1- One person asked for an espresso shot and hot water on the side, they then mixed them and used the milk on the tables to make a little flat white.
2- Another comes in almost daily with her own tea bag and asks for hot water but refuses to pay, she just sits there and drinks her own tea.
3- And finally the last one is people sharing tea, I've had people order tea then their friend comes up a couple mins later and asks for a mug of hot water and is less than happy when we charge them for it but when she returns to her table she takes her friends tea bags and sticks it in her water.
All of these people sit at tables and wont move for well over an hour while they chat away to their friends.
Have any of you had customers like this?
Just wondering if any of you have some cheap customers that come into your shop.
Over the past couple months I have seen people a few...
1- One person asked for an espresso shot and hot water on the side, they then mixed them and used the milk on the tables to make a little flat white.
2- Another comes in almost daily with her own tea bag and asks for hot water but refuses to pay, she just sits there and drinks her own tea.
3- And finally the last one is people sharing tea, I've had people order tea then their friend comes up a couple mins later and asks for a mug of hot water and is less than happy when we charge them for it but when she returns to her table she takes her friends tea bags and sticks it in her water.
All of these people sit at tables and wont move for well over an hour while they chat away to their friends.
Have any of you had customers like this?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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Besides being rude and disrespectful of the "I'm entitled" mind set kind of people, as I believe I may have said earlier in this thread, bringing outside food or drink into a restaurant is a Health Code violation. And yes, a coffeehouse is classed as and governed by the rules of a restaurant in my neck of the woods.
Bryan Wray said:I'm only going to comment on number 2, I'll let everyone else hash it out on number 4.
2) Good for your opinion, but I still strongly stand behind people buying something from me and me only in my business, call it greedy. Walking into a business with outside food is like slapping me in the face and saying that you don't like what I'm selling, but you are willing to take up space anyway for the free internet. It's extremely disrespectful. I'll restate my example... when was the last time some one was allowed to bring outside food into any establishment that wasn't a coffee shop? When you go to McDonald's for that "better cup" (are you kidding me right now?) do you walk in with a Subway sub, a Burger King onion ring and then proceed to the counter where you aren't expected to get dirty looks as you hold items from two competing establishments? I should think not! If you sit in my place and eat food from another establishment you are directly advertising for them in my shop. A different customer may look over at what you're eating and think, "That looks good, I think I'll get that" instead of buying something from my shop. *Now* I have lost a food customer for an uncommitted coffee customer. That's not worth it to me. Where do I start drawing the line? What happens if someone walks in with outside coffee but wants one of my scones? Now I have a customer sitting down with a Starbucks cup sipping away. Three other customers who are new to my place walk in and see the Starbucks cup sitting there and think that we don't care if you come in and just use the internet on our dime even if you are drinking outside drinks. Now you've cost me even more customers. The examples keep stacking up and I could go on for hours, but I don't need to. I think you get it, or at least by now you should.
Walk into my place with outside stuff and you'll soon be walking right back out, plain and simple.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Alun Evans on
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We have a cafe in beautiful Ubud, Bali. The cafe is fitted out to international standards- HVAC, under co0unter chillers, water filtration systems, 2 group Italian espresso machine, 2 grinders etc etc. A French national and his wife came in and asked how much for an espresso. Our barista said 12,000rp (which might sound a lot, but is about US$1.20). The Frenchman threw a fit..." That is a crazy price, how can you dare charge that... this is Bali NOT Europe" he ranted. "I can get a coffee at the roadside stall down the side of the mainroad for 5000rp". He did not take kindly to me explaining that the equiptment listed above, the electrical costs of the forementioned along with the rent and the fact that we use fairly traded coffee sets us apart from the hot, dusty, unhygenic warung... it beats me why someone would argue like this apart from the fact that maybe, just maybe he had gone troppo/locco!
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Permalink Reply by Khalid on
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Fraser: "There's that thing called rent and that other thing called tax." / Brady: "You say "intangibles", I say "overhead"."
Oh, I'm not denying these things at all. Just the opposite; I'm striving to show that much of the real value that a coffee shop provides resides not in the coffee itself, but in things like ambiance (comfy surroundings, good lighting, etc.) which make it a nice place to socialize, read, or work. Therefore, baristas should understand that this is often what they are really selling, and the coffee (as someone mentioned) is simply the ticket to the venue for many people. When I pay $2 for a tea, I know that the tea isn't any better than the identical tea bag that the very same coffee shop sells in a box at $0.20/piece; the $1.85 is going towards paying the expenses (rent, utilities, salaries, machinery) of running nice premises + hopefully a profit. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging this.
Therefore, I find it curious that some of you would say "We are open to attract coffee lovers and I'm working to bring in coffee lovers", because (a) that attitude limits your market to a niche, and (b) I thought your primary concern would be to turn a profit and earn a living, rather than to evangelize for the Cult of Coffee. :-) If your primary goal is to share your love of the bean, you can easily form a non-profit club of coffee-aficianodos.
If your chief concern is profitability, then you will try to cater to the different market segments that are available to you in a way that makes optimum use of your capacity. For all but most of the elite of coffee shops in big cities, a large segment will be people who are not really concerned with coffee, but who are willing to buy coffee as a ticket to a nice place to hang out for a bit. Why look down on a revenue source?
For example, say you ran a coffee shop in an office district. There would be many people who would be happy to buy lunchtime coffee or tea from you every day for the ambiance, but who couldn't stomach your food every day. Each of these people would still be doing ~$600 worth of business with you annually. Provided that you have ample seating which would otherwise remain empty, it would be foolish to be disdainful of such people; they might even be your prime source of revenue. Someone who is REALLY there for the coffee or panini may be willing to spend more per visit, but they will likely visit much less frequently. Each coffee shop has to understand the potential markets available to it and adjust accordingly.
"do you walk in with a Subway sub, a Burger King onion ring and then proceed to the counter where you aren't expected to get dirty looks as you hold items from two competing establishments?"
Actually, this is pretty common at fast food places of the sort you mention and nobody cares, so long as something is ordered. ***The important thing, for them, is that you're ordering something at the counter!*** Consumers love to mix-and-match, family members have different tastes, and so on. At franchises which operate in food courts or with drive-throughs, this can even be considered standard practice. You can drive yourself crazy thinking about supposedly lost revenue, but that can be counter-productive.
Coffee shops are (generally) a step above fast-food joints, though not quite as formal as any restaurant which has servers where of course it would be absolutely unacceptable to bring in any outside food. Therefore, there is a large grey area. Some coffee shop owners don't mind so long as they still make a sale, others do, and you have to have a feel for the place.
"Where do I start drawing the line?"
That is, of course, up to you and depends on your particular situation. I would agree with you that it's bad form for anyone to bring in goods that economists call 'perfect substitutes' for your products, or which advertise for your competitors, or to engage in the unscrupulous practices detailed earlier this discussion. And I would say that customers have a duty to ensure that they are adding to, not subtracting from, your bottom line overall. But I wouldn't be too rigid in enforcing what people do, so long as they are sincere, polite, and profitable. :-)
"There's a public library just down the road for laptop users."
If the libraries had more locations, better seating, and a chattier atmosphere then you could be sure that revenues at many coffee shops would go down, sharply in some cases. Why do you want to divert paying customers to a cheaper alternative? Starbucks knows that net access is what brings a lot of people into the shops who would otherwise never venture in, and seems to have profited handsomely from serving this market. (Admittedly, results may be different for low-capacity shops, where potential customers go away because they can't find seating.)
"When you go to McDonald's for that "better cup" (are you kidding me right now?)"
No, I'm serious. Though virtually all McDonald's food is gross and inedible, they've done their homework on their premium coffee. It's not just me; Consumer Reports and others conducted taste tests vs. other places that sell coffee and McDonald's came out on top, ahead of Starbucks. Even some the baristas at the Second Cup I frequent admit that McDonald's coffee is better. (The closest thing they have to it is the "Royal" blend.) I suppose McDonald's has the market clout to ensure they get a good price on high quality beans, drip brewing lends itself to consistency and efficiency, and they feel they that profit margins are fat enough to make it worthwhile. Give it a try, and let me know what kind of coffee you think it is. :-)
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For the record, I actually bring food to my local coffee shop quite often... for the staff! Homemade naans and other tasty, healthy things for them to try out. And I usually turn down the discount that the proprietor tries to give me for being a regular customer, as I know he has a young family and I've already factored the full price of my regular coffee into my budget anyways. This relationship seems to work well for both of us!
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Williamson on
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All right. There are a few things I want to respond to.
1) Khalid said: I find it curious that some of you would say "We are open to attract coffee lovers and I'm working to bring in coffee lovers", because (a) that attitude limits your market to a niche,
We are open to attract coffee lovers. We take our jobs very seriously for a number of reasons. First, we want to be at the top of our game when a customer comes in who knows what to expect, who knows what a good spro tastes like. When fellow baristi come into our establishment, we want to be performing at a level that meets their standards. That's how we treat all our customers--like they know what to expect and what truly great coffee tastes like. That's a reason why we are all here on our own time--to help each other learn to improve our level as professionals. Klaus Thompsen said (paraphrase) "At best a barista is taking away from the bean. As baristi, we can not add anything to an inferior bean. The specialty coffee industry is unique in that we strive for excellence in every step of the process. The job of being a barista is to pay respect to the care taken by the farmers and everyone else in the chain to produce the highest quality beverage." I absolutely agree with that sentiment. So you see, it is out of respect that we strive to be the best--it's not to boost our own egos. Secondly, a COMMON PROBLEM to all those in the specialty coffee community is CUSTOMER EDUCATION!!!! We want to be at the top because then we are able to a) know why our coffee is superior b) be able to explain that to a customer c) increase the awareness of the rest of the coffee chain. Too often, baristi appear "snobby" or like "jackasses" to customers (like yourself) who don't take the time to consider what we are doing and understand why it is that we do it. Admittedly, this is a problem. A truly great barista is someone with the ability to explain why we love coffee to the average customer, while checking his attitude with the respect of the rest of the chain that brought that coffee into his hands. We do want to attract coffee lovers. But we also want to increase the number of coffee lovers out there through customer education.
2) Khalid said: I thought your primary concern would be to turn a profit and earn a living, rather than to evangelize for the Cult of Coffee. :-) If your primary goal is to share your love of the bean, you can easily form a non-profit club of coffee-aficianodos.
The primary concern of Starbucks, Seattle's Best, Dunkin Doughnuts, McDonald's, and Caribou (and I'm sure some others) is to turn a profit. That is not why we do what we do. We do it because we love it. Unfortunately, we all need to survive and we need money to do that. That's where the money comes in. We only want to make the best coffee we possibly can so we can show more respect to our customers and to the farmers. In a perfect world, we would all be independently wealthy and able to form a non-profit, but the harsh reality is that it is not a perfect world and we do need to make money. That is only a necessity and not our passion. We are trying to help customers appreciate the world of coffee the way we love it. The best way we can do that is to make the best drinks we know how, to increase our skills and knowledge to do that more effectively, and to help educate the customers.
3) Khalid said: this is pretty common at fast food places of the sort you mention and nobody cares, so long as something is ordered.
Nobody cares at a fast food place, or a starbucks store or anywhere else because they don't give a damn about what they are doing! They lack the "big picture" view of what this is really all about! That's not necessarily their fault, though. They are stuck in the middle of a huge corporation in which they have no stock--they don't see any direct benefit in increased sales. They are only concerned that an order is made because that is the policy in place, and they want to avoid having their boss mad at them because they let someone in who didn't order. They are trying to get done with their shift, get paid, and that's all. We, on the other hand, feel we have something to offer the world and that is accomplished by educating one customer at a time.
4) Khalid said: Starbucks knows that net access is what brings a lot of people into the shops who would otherwise never venture in, and seems to have profited handsomely from serving this market.
Again, starbucks sucks and we are not here primarily for the profit, but we do need it to live. By the way, tip your barista :)
5) Khalid said: McDonald's came out on top, ahead of Starbucks.
Case in point about Starbucks sucking.
6) Khalid said: Even some the baristas at the Second Cup I frequent admit that McDonald's coffee is better. (The closest thing they have to it is the "Royal" blend.)
There is an underlying issue here with your comments that I feel needs to be addressed. Based on the fact that your shop even has a "Royal" blend, and that the "baristas" agree that McD's is better, I can tell you for a fact that the shop you are going to should not be classified in the category "specialty coffee." I'm sorry, but if your shop has a) a blend rather that just single origins (with the possible caveat of an espresso blend) b) or that even the baristi there admit they suck, then that is not the type of shop the majority of us here on bx represent. We are passionate about creating excellent coffee and promoting education. We are not here to bow down to industry giants because we believe there is something more to coffee than just pressing a button on a machine and grossly overloading it with milk and syrups. I suggest trying different shops. Travel some and ask people on here where good shops are that you can get to. You are not getting the true coffee experience from this location and that is scewing your perspective of the whole of the industry.
7) Khalid said: For the record, I actually bring food to my local coffee shop quite often... for the staff! Homemade naans and other tasty, healthy things for them to try out. And I usually turn down the discount that the proprietor tries to give me for being a regular customer, as I know he has a young family and I've already factored the full price of my regular coffee into my budget anyways. This relationship seems to work well for both of us!
You'd be welcome at my shop any time!!! :-)
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Permalink Reply by Maggie Cook on
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Khalid, you sound exactly like an Economics professor I once had: smart, sensible, and unabashedly cheap. I actually really like Economics, I was almost an Economics major. But here's the problem with both you and my microeconomics professor. It's very easy to boil things down to overhead, COGS, supply and demand, diminishing returns, etc. In fact, I actually made the exact same ticket comment you did earlier in this thread. What your terminology laden arguments lack is actually, the point.
The point is that people actually care. People don't open a business just to make money, they open a business because they have a passion for it. You, as an amateur Economist, hopefully understand that different people have different skills and passions. Sure, part of the reason why someone opens a coffee shop is to make a profit. But did you go to 9th grade? Because that's when tell you to do what you like, and you'll be successful. Believe it or not, baristas actually care about and believe in the work they do, and the coffee and tea they sell in terms of quality and taste.
The world isn't black and white my friend, it's not filled with capitalists and philanthropists. Next time I want to take an economics class, get my taxes done, or whatever it is you do, instead of paying you to help me I'm going to bring you a copy of "Taxes for dummies" and ask you to explain the two concepts I don't get for $5 so I don't have to pay you for the full work. If you're happy with that, then I guess we know why you don't understand the idea of having passion for your work.
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Permalink Reply by Underground Barista on
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We get cheap-ass people all day!
My personal favorite is the lady who gets a shot of espresso in a 16oz cold cup over ice, with a lid and straw, and then makes herself an iced latte with the counter milk. Nice. We also have people ask for cups, and then use them to just straight-up drink a glass of milk from the drink counter containers. We sell pints of milk for $1.35. Come on, America.
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Interesting post....
I am not a barista nor do I own a coffee shop. However I do have quite a few years in marketing. I know that all of these cheapskates bother you and rightfully so but dealing with them in an assertive manner may do more harm than good. Getting people into a shop is often more an issue than discouraging them from coming. You have to look at the mix. Every store is going to have a certain percentage of cheapskates and although you may see them as a "cost" factor but insulting them will only motivate them to spread bad press about your business and will end up costing your more in the long run.
I would suggest that doing just the opposite of what you would like to do to these people will be more effective. If they bring an empty cup....surprise them with a free cup of coffee. Perhaps that will get a more effective message. Treat them with kindness and hopefully they will spread the word about how nice you treat people. If it becomes really obsessive and you believe that you must deal with it then do it in a manner that you would like to be dealt with.
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Robert:
I agree with your theory. But it's not quite as easy as it sounds. I have no idea if you've ever worked in food service, retail, or any other job that is heavy in customer service, but it's easier said than done. At the shop I work at we try really hard to see how difficult situations can be used as an education experience or an opportunity to gain a customer/make someones day.
But it's still a business, and the truth is you can only give away so many drinks without starting to lose money, especially if your prices are low. Anyway, I would say theoretically you can come up with the perfect solution to any customer's bad attitude, experience, etc. A lot of the time that's true, sometimes it's not!
I think these threads can end up sounding like we all hate customers. We don't!! :)
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Permalink Reply by Fraser Jamieson on
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Maggie, I'm with you 100%.
Yes, we are venting off some steam here, but for the record, the vast majority of my customers are wonderful people who I love serving. A good chunk of them are amazing. The odd time I blow my top because of a poop head.
As for the free coffee idea. Sounds sweet, but we already give away a lot of free things: Far more cups go out the door than drinks get sold. More knives and forks get used than we sell cake. People bring in tea bags and ask for hot water.
A couple of weeks ago I went for coffee with Nate. Over coffee, he talked about his photography business and how he refuses to work for free. Working for free spreads the word that you work for free. That's my take on it too.
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David,
I am a customer-coffee-lover and when sharing your post with my better half, we laugh quite a bit. It is incredible that people would do this. Hopefully, they are true poor people! Could you just direct them to hot tap water in the washroom? This way they would feel even better!
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Permalink Reply by Madeline Yoste on
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i will admit to having been a cheap ass customer before...
happens to the best of us :)
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Permalink Reply by Ali Hojeij on
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Well what i do is in your situation is i come up to the customer and give her a new cup of Fresh Tea and the other perosn a new cup of Coffee to try and then ask for their opinion on bith. I tried this kind of service for such customers many times and made them feel to sorry for what they did.
try it.
Ali
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