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Permalink Reply by Mike Sabol on October 1, 2012 at 7:09pm

Hey, Bob. I think you'll find it easier to engage in conversation in the community here if you don't try to blatantly push what you have to sell whenever you post. If everybody here did that bX would be nothing but advertisements and insincere social network marketing. There are a gajillion places like that on the interwebs and I think most of us try to keep bX from heading down that same rabbit-hole. But if you are here to contribute your experience/expertise rather than sell, sell, sell, then welcome.

As for your question, I do not think signs generate sales. They communicate information. That's a bit like asking which tool fixes a house better, a hammer or a screwdriver, when it is the person using them that does the fixing.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on October 2, 2012 at 6:03am

I don't really think the medium makes much of a difference. I've seen excellent versions of both and really poor versions of both.

I think a good menu board is easily readable from distance and multiple angles, including all popular decision making spots. It allows someone to quickly find the drink they are looking for on first visit, and clearly understand the available sizes, options, and prices. It also communicates any new or featured drinks, as well as any specialties of the house. It contributes to and matches the personality of the shop without being cluttered.

Big problems I've observed with pre-printed menus include having too many items, being printed too small, lacking personality, and not being up-to-date. Assuming that the font and size were properly selected readibility is usually not an issue.

Big potential problems with chalkboard menus include most of the above, plus a big potential for readibility concerns. These usually are up-to-date though. They often have more personality, though this can often mean cluttered and difficult to read.

Bob, since this seems to be an area of expertise for you perhaps you could share some tips for making chalkboard menus look great and work well? What are some of the design guidelines you employ?

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Permalink Reply by Laura Clark on October 2, 2012 at 8:24am

I agree with Brady. I don't think that there is a big difference in sales. We have the printed menus at our shop, and I'm the head barista. I'm wanting to add pourovers and other items to our menu, and it's a little bit more difficult to add items to the menus. 

Printed can be good, and so can the Chalk board. Pick the one that matches your shop, and if you print, maybe there are ways you can easily take stuff off the board, or add things to it. 

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Permalink Reply by John P on October 2, 2012 at 7:57pm

Neither. 

Our Menu is printed on two 8.5x11" sheets of  paper and mounted to a board on our counter for "to go" people. Those staying are seated and given a small printed menu. 

Sales are much higher since we got rid of the menu boards. Business models need to improve and adapt. I think menu boards, in the traditional sense, should be a thing of the past. 

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Permalink Reply by Michael Arnovitz on October 3, 2012 at 10:53am

John - when you say that your patrons are now seated and given a menu, do you mean that your café is now table service? Do you actually have servers that attend to the seated customers? Do you also have tables for customers who do not want table service?

Did your customers complain much when you made this change?
How long did it take for you to notice the sales increase after you made this change?

John P said:

Neither. 

Our Menu is printed on two 8.5x11" sheets of  paper and mounted to a board on our counter for "to go" people. Those staying are seated and given a small printed menu. 

Sales are much higher since we got rid of the menu boards. Business models need to improve and adapt. I think menu boards, in the traditional sense, should be a thing of the past. 

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Permalink Reply by Brady on October 3, 2012 at 6:12pm

I like this as an idea and think it should be an option that everyone considers, but I don't think it would be the right approach for everyone.

Think about it in restaurant terms: A wall-mounted menu would be totally out of place at a fine-dining restaurant - even the nicer pizza joints give you a menu. However your average fast-food (or even decent fast-casual) place goes wall-mount, and a handheld menu would be a little strange.

Wallmount says fast food, print says fine dining. Perhaps a cafe's position on the spectrum suggests which approach makes the most sense.

John P said:

Neither. 

Our Menu is printed on two 8.5x11" sheets of  paper and mounted to a board on our counter for "to go" people. Those staying are seated and given a small printed menu. 

Sales are much higher since we got rid of the menu boards. Business models need to improve and adapt. I think menu boards, in the traditional sense, should be a thing of the past. 

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Permalink Reply by John P on October 3, 2012 at 8:06pm

Michael,

We've been fairly progressive from the outset, so our customers are pretty adaptive. We greet everyone when they come in, and if it's more than one person we ask if it's for here or to go. If it's to go, we direct them to the menu. If they are staying we direct them to a seat, bring them menus, give them a quick overview, and check back in a few minutes. If it's a regular or someone who knows what they want, then no menu may be necessary.

For us, having a menu board take up so much valuable wall space was not a good idea. Back in 2004, we started with printed menu boards, moved to magnetic vinyl and about three years ago, we knew it was time to utilize the space more effectively and make the surroundings match what we serve. The menu boards came down. We repainted and made use of the wall space for shelving for china and glassware.

The transition was seamless as the small menu is near our register, so it's easy to see. And if you tell people to "Take a seat, and we'll bring you out some menus." It's a welcome change and always well received.

Michael Arnovitz said:

John - when you say that your patrons are now seated and given a menu, do you mean that your café is now table service? Do you actually have servers that attend to the seated customers? Do you also have tables for customers who do not want table service?

Did your customers complain much when you made this change?
How long did it take for you to notice the sales increase after you made this change?

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Permalink Reply by John P on October 3, 2012 at 8:20pm

Brady,

Agreed.  Which is why we made the change.

My thought is, how do purveyors of excellent coffee convince the unknowing consumer that they have a better product when the formula for presenting it is the same as those with lousy product?

The answer is, they can't.

If the "Specialty Coffee" industry, or the progressive part of the industry, wants to educate a larger portion of the public on the vast chasm that exists between coffee from X type shops vs Y type shops, then owners need to fundamentally change their business models as we move forward.

It would be worlds easier for a new business to focus more on table side or only on table side, but it is difficult for an existing business to make a wholesale change. Obviously different markets will have different acceptance levels of things, but I find that if you deliver on the product, customers will give you a very wide latitude on what you can do. 

Brady said:nt

I like this as an idea and think it should be an option that everyone considers, but I don't think it would be the right approach for everyone.

Think about it in restaurant terms: A wall-mounted menu would be totally out of place at a fine-dining restaurant - even the nicer pizza joints give you a menu. However your average fast-food (or even decent fast-casual) place goes wall-mount, and a handheld menu would be a little strange.

Wallmount says fast food, print says fine dining. Perhaps a cafe's position on the spectrum suggests which approach makes the most sense.

John P said:

Neither. 

Our Menu is printed on two 8.5x11" sheets of  paper and mounted to a board on our counter for "to go" people. Those staying are seated and given a small printed menu. 

Sales are much higher since we got rid of the menu boards. Business models need to improve and adapt. I think menu boards, in the traditional sense, should be a thing of the past. 

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