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Permalink Reply by craig mcconville on May 15, 2010 at 9:27pm

thanks. we have a person pulling shots and another steaming milk and finishing the coffees we do 10-14 kilo of coffee per day so we usually have8-10 shots lined up at anyone time sometimes the long black will start loosing crema if the runner is slow in organizing cakes and things
regards craig

Ricky Sutton said:

*mazzer

*marzocco

I'm not really in the habit of letting my espresso sit around for so long. It goes in a drink or it gets drank. If i pull a shot for someone and they're in the bathroom... i drink it. Unless you're noticing a negative flavor issue, i'd say you're doing fine.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on May 16, 2010 at 6:36am

I suspect some small change in water chemistry, beans, or barista process. There are several discussions on here on this same subject, just do a quick search on crema and they should pop up.

To Ricky's point, how do the shots taste?

Also, which Mazzer grinder are you using? Hopefully it is a Robur or Major. I don't think a Super Jolly is appropriate for that volume. Excessive grinder heat can definitely have detrimental effects on your espresso. Plus a bigger grinder is much faster, reducing the need to work ahead.

Now, what do I think? I think espresso should be made to order. I've been to some pretty busy cafes that still managed to make drinks to order. Perhaps you could reconsider your workflow or process to reduce the need for this.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Joseph John on May 16, 2010 at 11:35am

It is possible your coffee is too fresh. As a result, too much carbon dioxide is released when hot water hits the ground coffee. Under those conditions water does not penetrate the ground coffee particles enough to extract the coffee flavors or the oils.

What you are seeing is likely foam, not crema. Foam is a collection of tiny bubbles with a layer of water on the outside and carbon dioxide inside. It will dissipate quickly.

Crema, on the other hand, is a collection of tiny bubbles with a layer of oil on the outside and the aroma of coffee captured within. That will last much longer.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on May 16, 2010 at 1:03pm

Good call, Dr. John.

Craig, fill us in a bit... what's your dose in grams, shot volume, shot time, and the age of your espresso? What espresso are you using?

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Permalink Reply by craig mcconville on May 17, 2010 at 2:58am

Hi
sorry for the delay we are using a robur grinder the espresso is tasting good,as we are in a zone that the city adds chlorine and flouride to the water.I changed out 3 filters yesterday and have noticed a change in longer crema i appreciate all advice and realized it has been 5 months without changing the water filters after yesterdays post.
We only use 16 grm doses. coffee is anywhere from 1 day to 5 days old no older than that.
regards craig

Brady said:

I suspect some small change in water chemistry, beans, or barista process. There are several discussions on here on this same subject, just do a quick search on crema and they should pop up.

To Ricky's point, how do the shots taste?

Also, which Mazzer grinder are you using? Hopefully it is a Robur or Major. I don't think a Super Jolly is appropriate for that volume. Excessive grinder heat can definitely have detrimental effects on your espresso. Plus a bigger grinder is much faster, reducing the need to work ahead.

Now, what do I think? I think espresso should be made to order. I've been to some pretty busy cafes that still managed to make drinks to order. Perhaps you could reconsider your workflow or process to reduce the need for this.

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Permalink Reply by James Tooill on May 17, 2010 at 9:25am

In my humble experience, your espresso being possibly only one day off the roast proves that Dr. John was right on the money. I won't pull our espresso until at least 3 days post roast. Some hold onto it for longer than that before even sending it to wholesale accounts.

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Permalink Reply by Chris on May 17, 2010 at 1:12pm

I think that the combination of all the issues conspired to rob you of long lasting crema.
Remember 'Babbie's Rule of Fifteens'.*
Greens will start to fall off after fifteen months.
Roasted coffee will start to fall off after fifteen days.
Ground coffee will start to fall off after fifteen minutes.
Extracted coffee will start to fall off after fifteen seconds.

*Remember, too, that it's a general rule, and there will be outliers in both directions depending on individual coffees, blends, and environments/kit.

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