Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bwynn on January 4, 2009 at 7:35am

miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:

As a roaster and cafe owner struggling to keep the doors open I can honestly say I'd close the doors before I'd flavor any roast. That is not the customer base I'm working to build.

That’s insane! So many people love flavored coffee and are stuck in the matrix. I would hate to see a indy shop fail all because the owner didn’t want to sell flavored coffee. Get them in the shop and educate them. This whole "we are greater than thou flavored coffee drinker/you cant taste the Chocolate in my Brazilian single origin?- You are not my type of customer"mindset is really getting to me. The Red Pill! Give them the Red Pill! (NEO)

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Permalink Reply by Bj Davis on January 4, 2009 at 9:45am

Yes I have some of this in the store. For those who have tried it they like it, I have also used it in a cookie batter that turned out well. I just had someone yesterday that asked if I had flavored coffee or "just those syurps" I told here about the pure flavor, and she asked if it cost extra. When I said yes she declined.

I get the flavored coffee request about once every two weeks or so. Most people will take the mild brew and decline the addition of syrup or pure flavor, because they don't want to pay extra.

Brady said:

Anyone have experience with this Monin product? I've seen it but not tried it yet. We do currently stock a limited number of "flavored" coffees. Some mornings they represent a significant portion of our drip sales (perhaps 20%), other mornings they hardly move.

Nasty stuff, I'd just as soon drop it altogether. I was toying with the idea of a "no flavoreds" day once a week... just to get them to try a great real coffee.

Curiously, very few of my flavored coffee customers accept a cup of coffee with a flavor syrup shot as a substitute... not sure why. Even if they sweeten it, they just don't like it. Curious.

Oh, not to be argumentative, but you actually can polish a turd - saw it on Mythbusters a few nights ago. When prepped properly, a ball of poo will take quite a nice shine. Perhaps I digress, but only very slightly. :)

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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on January 4, 2009 at 10:47am

Bwynn said:

miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:

As a roaster and cafe owner struggling to keep the doors open I can honestly say I'd close the doors before I'd flavor any roast. That is not the customer base I'm working to build.

That’s insane! So many people love flavored coffee and are stuck in the matrix. I would hate to see a indy shop fail all because the owner didn’t want to sell flavored coffee. Get them in the shop and educate them. This whole "we are greater than thou flavored coffee drinker/you cant taste the Chocolate in my Brazilian single origin?- You are not my type of customer"mindset is really getting to me. The Red Pill! Give them the Red Pill! (NEO)

No more insane than a high end steak house not offering a 99cent McDonald's style hamburger. Or a purportedly Artisan roaster offering low grade specialty coffees instead of cupping lots to find the good stuff... My business model does not include the lowest common denominator in coffee.

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Permalink Reply by Tamara Vigil on January 4, 2009 at 5:36pm

exactly! how far are you willing to bend your values in order to make a buck? too many businesses cut corners and give up quality in order to "please customers" and make ends meet. There has to be balance, working together with other like-minded businesses in order to keep quality products that are safe for everyone.
Sustainability is about looking ahead to the future and seeing the consequences of the decisions we make today. How can your business be sustainable if you're slowly clogging the arteries of the customers AND the staff.
miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:

Bwynn said:

miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:

As a roaster and cafe owner struggling to keep the doors open I can honestly say I'd close the doors before I'd flavor any roast. That is not the customer base I'm working to build.

That’s insane! So many people love flavored coffee and are stuck in the matrix. I would hate to see a indy shop fail all because the owner didn’t want to sell flavored coffee. Get them in the shop and educate them. This whole "we are greater than thou flavored coffee drinker/you cant taste the Chocolate in my Brazilian single origin?- You are not my type of customer"mindset is really getting to me. The Red Pill! Give them the Red Pill! (NEO)

No more insane than a high end steak house not offering a 99cent McDonald's style hamburger. Or a purportedly Artisan roaster offering low grade specialty coffees instead of cupping lots to find the good stuff... My business model does not include the lowest common denominator in coffee.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on January 4, 2009 at 5:54pm

Wow, this is a firestarter of a discussion. You have two choices for flavored coffee. Either flavor it before brewed, either through introducing a flavoring agent before or after roast, or use a flavored syrup such as Torani, as the customer requests it. Here's the bottom line about flavored coffee, it's an introduction alot of us wouldn't have gotten that allows us an opportunity to educate them about coffee further. My wife is a great example of someone who didn't like coffee, then liked flavored coffees or really sweet espresso drinks, and now can drink coffee black and enjoy it. We must take every opportunity we can to introduce people to coffee, and work to educate them to coffee in it's purest forms. I hate to say that, but I think it's idealistic to assume they go from little experience into Chemex pourover Rwanda Bufcafe, or traditional capp. They have to come in somewhere, and for a lot of people, flavored coffee is where they come in.
I don't like it, won't drink it, but I think it does have a place in the specialty coffee industry, a comment I know will make people cringe at my very words. But it does. Here in the South, that's my experience, and I know many will back me up on it. I have visited some shops recently, even blogged about them, where they are working towards getting customers to that purist point quicker, but it will take more time around here, I feel. Since I have been with Dilworth Coffee here in Charlotte, we have whittled our flavored coffee selection down to a handful from probably 20. Things are improving, but it has helped us to have it, so we could have the opportunity to get them into regular SO coffees gradually.

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Permalink Reply by Chris/Dale on January 4, 2009 at 6:13pm

Jason Dominy said:

Wow, this is a firestarter of a discussion. You have two choices for flavored coffee. Either flavor it before brewed, either through introducing a flavoring agent before or after roast, or use a flavored syrup such as Torani, as the customer requests it. Here's the bottom line about flavored coffee, it's an introduction alot of us wouldn't have gotten that allows us an opportunity to educate them about coffee further. My wife is a great example of someone who didn't like coffee, then liked flavored coffees or really sweet espresso drinks, and now can drink coffee black and enjoy it. We must take every opportunity we can to introduce people to coffee, and work to educate them to coffee in it's purest forms. I hate to say that, but I think it's idealistic to assume they go from little experience into Chemex pourover Rwanda Bufcafe, or traditional capp. They have to come in somewhere, and for a lot of people, flavored coffee is where they come in.
I don't like it, won't drink it, but I think it does have a place in the specialty coffee industry, a comment I know will make people cringe at my very words. But it does. Here in the South, that's my experience, and I know many will back me up on it. I have visited some shops recently, even blogged about them, where they are working towards getting customers to that purist point quicker, but it will take more time around here, I feel. Since I have been with Dilworth Coffee here in Charlotte, we have whittled our flavored coffee selection down to a handful from probably 20. Things are improving, but it has helped us to have it, so we could have the opportunity to get them into regular SO coffees gradually.

word ...

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Permalink Reply by Brady on January 4, 2009 at 6:44pm

Tamara Vigil said:

exactly! how far are you willing to bend your values in order to make a buck? (snip)

Yeah, because we're all getting real rich doing this... Let's try "in order to keep the lights on" or "in order to help pay for the organic fair trade stuff".

Tamara Vigil also said:

...How can your business be sustainable if you're slowly clogging the arteries of the customers AND the staff.

Sorry... could you clarify the way that my serving and my customer consuming flavored coffee will clog their (my) arteries?


Look, I do not like artificially-flavored coffees. I do not drink artificially-flavored coffees. I wish we'd never started offering them and am not personally proud to serve artificially-flavored coffee, though I do my best to make sure it is the best artificially-flavored coffee I'm capable of presenting. But I believe that what Jason has said is correct - flavored coffee is a "gateway" into specialty coffee.

I'd love to hear some great ideas that you may have to get our flavored customers converted away. Or some stories from those that have just stopped serving it and had a good outcome.

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Permalink Reply by Tamara Vigil on January 5, 2009 at 8:28am

don't get me wrong. I totally agree with this - I myself was introduced to coffee through frappes and snicker mochas. our policy is "no one leaves empty handed" if a customer comes in looking for flavored coffee they get a free drink of their choice if they don't like it we keep trying. we make up for the lack of options and the higher prices with extremely high standards in customer service, staff training, and quality product. we save money by having an awesome staff that volunteers a lot of their training time - they have faith that it will pay off in the future. we have partnered with other local businesses who are happy to support us because of the values that we have set. it's extremely stressful and I have nightmares the night before payroll is due, but it always works out and people keep coming back. Being afraid to stop serving something for fear of losing customers is a cop out. maybe it is idealistic but there are worse things than losing money (notice i said earlier "to make a buck"NOT "to get rich").

cite>Jason Dominy said:

Here's the bottom line about flavored coffee, it's an introduction alot of us wouldn't have gotten that allows us an opportunity to educate them about coffee further. My wife is a great example of someone who didn't like coffee, then liked flavored coffees or really sweet espresso drinks, and now can drink coffee black and enjoy it. We must take every opportunity we can to introduce people to coffee, and work to educate them to coffee in it's purest forms. I hate to say that, but I think it's idealistic to assume they go from little experience into Chemex pourover Rwanda Bufcafe, or traditional capp. They have to come in somewhere, and for a lot of people, flavored coffee is where they come in.
.

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Permalink Reply by Tamara Vigil on January 5, 2009 at 8:34am

stumptown, intelligentsia, gimme - do these guys serve flavored coffee? i'd call that a good outcome

BR>I'd love to hear some great ideas that you may have to get our flavored customers converted away. Or some stories from those that have just stopped serving it and had a good outcome.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on January 5, 2009 at 8:42am

Let's be blunt, those shops are in towns where coffee is alot more progressive than it is here in the South, and those companies have done well with educating customers alot of whom already drank coffee without flavors. I could be mistaken, but Chicago, Portland, Seattle and NY are cities which are a good bit more progressive in terms of coffee and espresso than alot of the rest of the US. Those of us in those cities are working towards that ourselves on a daily basis.
As far as a story about customers going from flavored to regular, I told you my wife is the best example. When I was able to show her that the flavors she was adding artificially were in certain coffees naturally, I was able to convert her to straight black coffee, and now she really enjoys it. But again, it had to start somewhere, and for her, it was hazelnut coffee. Now she loves a good cup of Guat or Brazil for the same flavors!

Tamara Vigil said:

stumptown, intelligentsia, gimme - do these guys serve flavored coffee? i'd call that a good outcome

BR>I'd love to hear some great ideas that you may have to get our flavored customers converted away. Or some stories from those that have just stopped serving it and had a good outcome.

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Permalink Reply by Tamara Vigil on January 5, 2009 at 8:53am

there is always a better way. . .

http://www.ineedcoffee.com/07/flavored-coffee/

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Permalink Reply by Dan Streetman on January 5, 2009 at 9:23am

wow did this thread get heated up....


let me clarify my original post before some people I know try to throw me over-board.

I suggested the simply flavor by monin for two reasons...

first the original question is what is a better way to serve flavored coffee
second, the people at Monin, especially Don Harrell are awesome!

that said I too usually do not encourage flavoring coffee.

Jason your point is well taken about the big names beingin cities that are more coffee educated... but the question is... how did they get that way. Sorry I especially don't see this point on flavored coffee, as even Starbucks does not nor have they ever served flavored coffee, and they have been able to be rather successful everywhere in the country.

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