Have you guys seen this Liturgy about Coffee?
I would love to hear what you guys thought about it. Can you think of a situation in which someone could use this?
Check it out
Check it out
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Chris Hooton on
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Honestly, I can't begin to say how much I love this. I can't wait to try it out. As I was reading through it, I kept blurting out bits to my wife and I got that look, that no doubt accompanies many of the posts here, by which she says "you are such a geek, and it is amazing that you found someone as crazy as you." She was stunned that I hadn't already put together a liturgy like this!
The comments in this thread are interesting as well. Is this personal? Yes, extremely, few things could be more intimate than how we worship. Yet is such a discourse inappropriate in a public forum? I should hope not. Especially as we live in an age of pluralism, we should be eager and willing to learn from the personal stories of others. As a guy passionate about Jesus and the Triune God, I would no less love to hear how people of other faiths find meaning in connecting faith to his or her everyday life!
As far as the liturgy goes, I appreciate how truly Christian it is. (I wonder how other faiths would approach finding meaning, it would be exciting to hear.) For Christians, who believe that God sent God's very self to become incarnate - become the stuff of matter, it is telling that we can find God in the stuff around us. Coffee isn't the only place we can encounter the Divine Mystery, but I am gratified to know that I am not alone in finding the making and enjoyment of great coffee spiritual.
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Permalink Reply by Aaron C on
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[Per the earlier debate]
As a secular humanist, I am in disagreement with the world-view of many supporting the original poster; but, I fully support open discussion of all ideas. Accordingly, I hope that I'd be permitted to discuss coffee-related humanist values I might post in the "off topic" forum.
Best wishes.
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A Call said:I hope that I'd be permitted to discuss coffee-related humanist values I might post in the "off topic" forum.
I hope so too! I imagine we would find much common ground.
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Permalink Reply by Billy Kangas on
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I would LOVE to hear that if you post it put a link here so I can check it out
A Call said:[Per the earlier debate]
As a secular humanist, I am in disagreement with the world-view of many supporting the original poster; but, I fully support open discussion of all ideas. Accordingly, I hope that I'd be permitted to discuss coffee-related humanist values I might post in the "off topic" forum.
Best wishes.
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Permalink Reply by Chris DeMarse on
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Billy,
As a pastor and a coffee professional this definitely intrigues me. Forgive my mild skepticism, but I do find some of the prayers and scriptural passages a bit too far out of context for my taste. I do applaud the idea that whether one is eating, drinking, working, playing, weeping rejoicing they do so in a manner that is reflective of their love for God. On a practical level, I'm not sure how functional this is in a real coffee shop setting?!?!?!
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Chris (my there are a lot of us in this thread),
I guess my hermeneutics radar has changed some over the last few years, largely thanks to getting more into the way the church fathers used scripture. If Billy were building a sermon or apologetic for coffee being in the Bible I would agree with you... its a stretch. Praying scripture, though, takes on a different quality for me. I have found myself praying with the psalmist things that have no direct application to my life situation, yet by entering the psalmists place like an actor playing a part, and praying with the psalmist, I find I touch a place of depth and communion with the church universal. I see Billy using the language of scripture to help our souls express something spiritual through our coffee making.
Using it in the business of the day is another challenge, as is incorporating any spiritual discipline. I could see practicing it until I became comfortable with it. If I were able to recall bits of it, even phrases here and there as I am preparing drinks, it would incorporate nicely into the routine, like the way a breath prayer makes its way from the lips to the heart.
Chris DeMarse said:Billy,
As a pastor and a coffee professional this definitely intrigues me. Forgive my mild skepticism, but I do find some of the prayers and scriptural passages a bit too far out of context for my taste. I do applaud the idea that whether one is eating, drinking, working, playing, weeping rejoicing they do so in a manner that is reflective of their love for God. On a practical level, I'm not sure how functional this is in a real coffee shop setting?!?!?!
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As Chris H. Said this is not an attempt to put coffee in the Bible, but to bring the Bible into my coffee... I believe we should let the scripture speak to us at all times. These prayers are the result of years of meditation at work on the Bible. For me they come easily while I'm working. Sometimes I will go through the whole thing other times I simply am reminded of parts as I go about my work. Think about it like when you are preparing a sermon. As you go about your daily life the sermon that you are preparing is in the back of your mind and you see new meaning to simple things because you have a larger goal bouncing around your head. The same thing happens while I prepare drinks. These prayers are written down to help other believers to see God peeking out in the midst of their day to day routines.
Chris DeMarse said:Billy,
As a pastor and a coffee professional this definitely intrigues me. Forgive my mild skepticism, but I do find some of the prayers and scriptural passages a bit too far out of context for my taste. I do applaud the idea that whether one is eating, drinking, working, playing, weeping rejoicing they do so in a manner that is reflective of their love for God. On a practical level, I'm not sure how functional this is in a real coffee shop setting?!?!?!
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Permalink Reply by Dennis on
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But in all of this the greater issue is FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Do we not have the right to say anything anymore? Someone once said:
I SHALL DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY BUT I SHALL FIGHT TO THE DEATH FOR YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT!
Thanks for the debate guys and gals it was fun to read. Just make sure in all of this nobody takes it too serious. let's have some coffee now! go to your machines and pull a big ol shot and enjoy...:-)
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Permalink Reply by Terika on
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I graduated in May with my M.Div. and I will be getting ordained this summer. While I was in seminary I had to memorize the Shema in Hebrew. I cannot tell you how many times it still comes into my head as I am steaming milk or pulling shots of espresso. So I totally agree with likening it to a breath prayer. I believe that worship is a way of life, not just an hour on Sunday morning, so it's quite appropriate that it makes its way into everything you do...especially the things you love.
Chris Hooton said:Chris (my there are a lot of us in this thread),
I guess my hermeneutics radar has changed some over the last few years, largely thanks to getting more into the way the church fathers used scripture. If Billy were building a sermon or apologetic for coffee being in the Bible I would agree with you... its a stretch. Praying scripture, though, takes on a different quality for me. I have found myself praying with the psalmist things that have no direct application to my life situation, yet by entering the psalmists place like an actor playing a part, and praying with the psalmist, I find I touch a place of depth and communion with the church universal. I see Billy using the language of scripture to help our souls express something spiritual through our coffee making.
Using it in the business of the day is another challenge, as is incorporating any spiritual discipline. I could see practicing it until I became comfortable with it. If I were able to recall bits of it, even phrases here and there as I am preparing drinks, it would incorporate nicely into the routine, like the way a breath prayer makes its way from the lips to the heart.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Cockrell on
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Scriptures teach that worship and prayer are to be in a manner pleasing to God. It's not about what we want to gain from it, or like, or about what we think it should be - it's about what God wants and how he wants to be worshiped. Clearly scripture tells us this. Praying to God is not something memorized or for others to see us do, or to be seen, but for God. Yes, there is much to gain from prayer and a good prayer life. But God demands obediance. Look into His word. Consider this scripture from Gods word:
Matt. 6
1"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
2"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3 "But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
5 "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8"So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
Food for thought!
Chris
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Permalink Reply by Deferio on
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Thanks for this reply, Chris.
Chris Cockrell said:Scriptures teach that worship and prayer are to be in a manner pleasing to God. It's not about what we want to gain from it, or like, or about what we think it should be - it's about what God wants and how he wants to be worshiped. Clearly scripture tells us this. Praying to God is not something memorized or for others to see us do, or to be seen, but for God. Yes, there is much to gain from prayer and a good prayer life. But God demands obediance. Look into His word. Consider this scripture from Gods word:
Matt. 6
1"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
2"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3 "But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
5 "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8"So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
Food for thought!
Chris
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I don't think the intent of such a liturgy is to show off in front of the rest of the shop. I could envision myself using the liturgy silently, or leading private corporate worship experiences around the espresso machine. For what is is worth, I have come to view pre-written prayers as sometimes more powerful in expressing the thoughts of my heart than an extemporaneous prayer, especially when praying scripture. The psalms and the "Lord's Prayer" are useful when engaged with the heart, but, I agree with you that praying by rote is unhelpful.
Deferio said:Thanks for this reply, Chris.
Chris Cockrell said:Scriptures teach that worship and prayer are to be in a manner pleasing to God. It's not about what we want to gain from it, or like, or about what we think it should be - it's about what God wants and how he wants to be worshiped. Clearly scripture tells us this. Praying to God is not something memorized or for others to see us do, or to be seen, but for God. Yes, there is much to gain from prayer and a good prayer life. But God demands obediance. Look into His word. Consider this scripture from Gods word:
Matt. 6Click to view Matt. 6 (NIV)
1"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
2"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3 "But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
5 "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6 "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8"So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
Food for thought!
Chris
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