Help! Quats quandry
Does anyone else out there have trouble with severely dry hands when using quats? We use this sanitizer at the shop I work at, and it's destroying my hands... red, scaly, sore, dry like sandpaper, and now an itchy rash. I think I may be allergic. Even with gloves available, it's hard to always use them because my hands are constantly wet from cleaning something. I've also tried all kinds of hand creams at night, but nothing helps. Has anyone else dealt with this???
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by emily jackson on
-
i have a very similar problem. my hands crack and bleed at the callussed parts of my hands in the winter,in particular. the shop i work for uses as natural of products as the health department will allow, but still with your hands wet from cleaning for 8 hour shifts, that can really destroy the integrity of your skin.
whenever i am on my way home from a shift, i will slather my hands in a fragrance free, paraben-free,dye-free, hypo-allergenic lotion. there is a great one that i got at target, that is made by Boot's chemist from the UK called "expert dry skin balm". i then put on a pair of cotton gloves and enjoy the bus ride home while moisturizing.
if they are super badly cracked, i will put neosporin on my hands and put on rubber gloves and wrap them in a warm towel. the heat helps alot.
i have also started taking vitamin e orally and occasionally popping one of the tabs with a needle and squeezing out the oil onto my cracked skin.
if my skin is extra callussed, i will sometimes pumic my hands when i am in the bath. after pumicing, i will follow it with the neosporin treatment and sleep cotton gloves on too.
you can also try to increase your probiotic intake, eat more fatty fish, and eggs. vitamin k is apparently good, though i have recently added it to my arsenal with no impact at all. DRINK MORE WATER!!!
i know it seems crazy to focus so much energy on healing your hands, but your skin is your body's largest organ. it really does pay off to take care of it.
i hope that this helps.
-
Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on
-
emily jackson said:i have a very similar problem. my hands crack and bleed at the callussed parts of my hands in the winter,in particular. the shop i work for uses as natural of products as the health department will allow, but still with your hands wet from cleaning for 8 hour shifts, that can really destroy the integrity of your skin.
whenever i am on my way home from a shift, i will slather my hands in a fragrance free, paraben-free,dye-free, hypo-allergenic lotion. there is a great one that i got at target, that is made by Boot's chemist from the UK called "expert dry skin balm". i then put on a pair of cotton gloves and enjoy the bus ride home while moisturizing.
if they are super badly cracked, i will put neosporin on my hands and put on rubber gloves and wrap them in a warm towel. the heat helps alot.
i have also started taking vitamin e orally and occasionally popping one of the tabs with a needle and squeezing out the oil onto my cracked skin.
if my skin is extra callussed, i will sometimes pumic my hands when i am in the bath. after pumicing, i will follow it with the neosporin treatment and sleep cotton gloves on too.
you can also try to increase your probiotic intake, eat more fatty fish, and eggs. vitamin k is apparently good, though i have recently added it to my arsenal with no impact at all. DRINK MORE WATER!!!
i know it seems crazy to focus so much energy on healing your hands, but your skin is your body's largest organ. it really does pay off to take care of it.
i hope that this helps.
Or you could always wear dish gloves while submerging your hands in sanitizer that otherwise destroys them ;)
-bry
-
Permalink Reply by Brady on
-
Looks like some great ideas so far. The only one that I haven't seen yet is to bring in a bottle of moisturizing hand soap to use for hand washing and a good non-greasy lotion. I struggle with dry cracked hands too, but it is the result of washing my hands so often on bar.
Now, let me ask a silly question... why are your hands constantly wet from cleaning something? I've not yet run across a shop where they didn't batch dishes and do them in a couple of sessions, making it practical to wear gloves. Is there something else you are using this solution for? Perhaps a couple of process changes are in order for your shop?
-
-
you cant exactly wear rubber gloves when you are on bar, making 'spro and steaming milk. if the rag that you are using to clean off the steam wand is damp and soaked in sanitizer, it kind of makes it impossible to avoid contact with the sanitizer.
Bryan Wray said:emily jackson said:i have a very similar problem. my hands crack and bleed at the callussed parts of my hands in the winter,in particular. the shop i work for uses as natural of products as the health department will allow, but still with your hands wet from cleaning for 8 hour shifts, that can really destroy the integrity of your skin.
whenever i am on my way home from a shift, i will slather my hands in a fragrance free, paraben-free,dye-free, hypo-allergenic lotion. there is a great one that i got at target, that is made by Boot's chemist from the UK called "expert dry skin balm". i then put on a pair of cotton gloves and enjoy the bus ride home while moisturizing.
if they are super badly cracked, i will put neosporin on my hands and put on rubber gloves and wrap them in a warm towel. the heat helps alot.
i have also started taking vitamin e orally and occasionally popping one of the tabs with a needle and squeezing out the oil onto my cracked skin.
if my skin is extra callussed, i will sometimes pumic my hands when i am in the bath. after pumicing, i will follow it with the neosporin treatment and sleep cotton gloves on too.
you can also try to increase your probiotic intake, eat more fatty fish, and eggs. vitamin k is apparently good, though i have recently added it to my arsenal with no impact at all. DRINK MORE WATER!!!
i know it seems crazy to focus so much energy on healing your hands, but your skin is your body's largest organ. it really does pay off to take care of it.
i hope that this helps.
Or you could always wear dish gloves while submerging your hands in sanitizer that otherwise destroys them ;)
-bry
-
Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on
-
sounds like your solution is too strong. use your test strips and see how many ppm your solution is at. my hands get dry from washing them but i've never had a problem with quaternary sanitizer unless it's been made too strong.
-
Permalink Reply by Fraser Jamieson on
-
And was said above: DRINKS LOTS OF WATER. No fooling...nothing works better in the long term.
-
-
I didn't mean to insult, and Teresa made it sound like she was just doing dishes before adjusting the OP to clarify. And certainly if just touching the rag while wiping the wand is destroying your hands your solution is WAY too strong.
-bry
emily jackson said:you cant exactly wear rubber gloves when you are on bar, making 'spro and steaming milk. if the rag that you are using to clean off the steam wand is damp and soaked in sanitizer, it kind of makes it impossible to avoid contact with the sanitizer.
Bryan Wray said:emily jackson said:i have a very similar problem. my hands crack and bleed at the callussed parts of my hands in the winter,in particular. the shop i work for uses as natural of products as the health department will allow, but still with your hands wet from cleaning for 8 hour shifts, that can really destroy the integrity of your skin.
whenever i am on my way home from a shift, i will slather my hands in a fragrance free, paraben-free,dye-free, hypo-allergenic lotion. there is a great one that i got at target, that is made by Boot's chemist from the UK called "expert dry skin balm". i then put on a pair of cotton gloves and enjoy the bus ride home while moisturizing.
if they are super badly cracked, i will put neosporin on my hands and put on rubber gloves and wrap them in a warm towel. the heat helps alot.
i have also started taking vitamin e orally and occasionally popping one of the tabs with a needle and squeezing out the oil onto my cracked skin.
if my skin is extra callussed, i will sometimes pumic my hands when i am in the bath. after pumicing, i will follow it with the neosporin treatment and sleep cotton gloves on too.
you can also try to increase your probiotic intake, eat more fatty fish, and eggs. vitamin k is apparently good, though i have recently added it to my arsenal with no impact at all. DRINK MORE WATER!!!
i know it seems crazy to focus so much energy on healing your hands, but your skin is your body's largest organ. it really does pay off to take care of it.
i hope that this helps.
Or you could always wear dish gloves while submerging your hands in sanitizer that otherwise destroys them ;)
-bry
-
-
emily jackson said:you cant exactly wear rubber gloves when you are on bar, making 'spro and steaming milk. if the rag that you are using to clean off the steam wand is damp and soaked in sanitizer, it kind of makes it impossible to avoid contact with the sanitizer.
I understand the philosophy, and know that some shops do this, but this doesn't seem to me to be an appropriate use of the sanitizer.
Remember that Quats is a sanitizer, not a cleaner. Sanitizer is meant to sanitize solid surfaces that are already clean. It is not magic or a cure-all, it is a chemical that works as directed when used as directed.
If the intention of this is to sanitize the steamwand, this is unnecessary. The steamwand gets hot enough during normal operation to inhibit bacterial growth as long as it is kept clean.
If the intention is to prohibit bacterial growth on the rag itself, I'm not sure this is an appropriate use of the solution, or even necessary. To my knowledge, there is no problem with the more usual practice of just using a rag, dampened with plain water, that is rinsed often and changed out during the shift. So if the use of Quats is of no measurable benefit AND creates a problems for the barista, why do it?
I could be way out in left field on this one. So, who here uses Quats for more than dishes? Is this an explicit requirement by anyone's health department? Why?
-
-
it IS an explicit requirement by the north carolina health department, at least, and i think it applies in other states. brady you may have not had a health inspector tell you that, but it is in the regulations. any cloths used for wiping surfaces have to be regularly rinsed in a sanitizer solution. we're technically not supposed to use dry rags to wipe the portafilter baskets either. none of it makes any sense, but it's "required."
i rinse my wand rags in 200ppm sanitizer solution sometimes, and always rinse my wipe-down rags in it, and have never had an issue with it tearing up my skin. which makes me think the original poster is making her solution far too strong.
-
Permalink Reply by teresa pilarz on
-
Hi guys....Happy Holidays! Thanks for all the amazing suggestions. I especially liked what Margo and Emily had to say about more natural options and solutions. I hate using any chemical, unfortunately, as I am ServSafe certified, I know there's not any completely natural sanitation solution on the market yet.
To answer a few questions that have been raised, at our shop, we use the quats sanitation tablets from GFS and HAVE tested them for the proper concentration. I just think it's a harsh formulation, and do think we could benefit from switching brands. Like Brady, I'm constantly washing my hands, as you're supposed to everytime you change tasks such as touch garbage, eat or touch your face, or what ever else that could contaminate. Also, sometimes I just have to wash to get the coffee off, because we go thru a lot of bean sales, and have a bulk grinder that has a few static issues. (maybe i'm a little ocd about the hand washing, but that's just me when handling food!)
And yes, we do use the solution to clean countertops and other surfaces, so hence the hands are constantly exposed even if I try to do the dishes in bulk. I'm not sure what else you could use to wash contact surfaces other than sanitizer (??). If anyone can recommend another quats that's affordable and easy to get or something else that is health dept approved and not so harsh, please let me know.
-
-
Jared Rutledge said:it IS an explicit requirement by the north carolina health department, at least, and i think it applies in other states. brady you may have not had a health inspector tell you that, but it is in the regulations. any cloths used for wiping surfaces have to be regularly rinsed in a sanitizer solution. we're technically not supposed to use dry rags to wipe the portafilter baskets either. none of it makes any sense, but it's "required."
i rinse my wand rags in 200ppm sanitizer solution sometimes, and always rinse my wipe-down rags in it, and have never had an issue with it tearing up my skin. which makes me think the original poster is making her solution far too strong.
OK... I'm looking in to this a little more now. For a little background... with one exception, our shop has gotten perfect sanitation scores from day one. The exception was when we lost half a point for "crumbs" in a utensil drawer that later turned out to be discolored spots on the steel, not crumbs. So we take cleanliness very seriously and try to make sure we are doing things right. We want to keep that 102.
There are several references in the NC DEH Sanitation Rules for Food Service Establishments that we might consider in this discussion. Rules vary state-to-state, so YMMV, but I'm interested in making sure we're on the same page.
Regarding the occasional sanitizing of the wand rag, this sounds like a good idea, assuming you are following appropriate practice to, in fact, sanitize a cloth. I see nothing in the directions of the Steramine Quats tablets that indicates that they are effective at sanitizing cloths, much less any recommended concentration. I also find no indications for how one might satisfy a requirement to sanitize a cloth.
Looking at the NC Rules for guidance, the only thing I find is this reference in 15A NCAC 18A .2618:
"(a) All equipment and fixtures shall be kept clean. All cloths used by chefs and other employees in the kitchen shall be clean."
Just clean. I see no requirement for how clean, wet or dry, soaked in any solution of any PPM, any indication of single use... just "clean". If you have a link that clarifies this, please share. Until then, I'll continue to use a clean wet cloth, changed out periodically for a new one.
Regarding the surface cleaning requirement, I am in agreement for preparation surfaces. Here's the spec:
15A NCAC 18A .2609 REFRIGERATION: THAWING: AND PREPARATION OF FOOD
(d) ...Preparation surfaces which come in contact with potentially hazardous foods shall be sanitized as provided in Rule .2618(c) of this Section.
OK, so we jump to .2618(c):
"(c) All multi-use eating and drinking utensils shall be washed, rinsed, and subjected to a bactericidal treatment specified in Rule .2619 of this Section after each usage...When spray-on or wipe-on sanitizers are used, the chemical strengths shall be those required in Rule .2619 of this Section for sanitizing multi-use eating and drinking utensils." Which is the 200 PPM Quats solution OR a 50 PPM bleach solution. We clean the table, then spray on the bleach solution, allow to stand, then dry with a clean cloth. Your hands never get wet that way... perhaps that would help the OP.
However, this doesn't apply to the steam wand:
"(d) In addition to washing and rinsing multi-use utensils as indicated in Paragraph (c) of this Rule, preparation
surfaces which come in contact with potentially hazardous foods and are not subjected to heat during routine cooking operations shall be sanitized."
Steamwands get PFH during routine operations. Out of curiosity, do you wash, rinse, wipe with solution and allow to stand wet for 2 minutes, then air dry?
Regarding the use of a dry rag in the portafilter, I don't see how this is even relevant... is ground espresso a potentially hazardous food? Is it a "clean cloth" thing? The basket shouldn't need to be sanitized between uses since it also falls under the "subjected to heat" provision. I'm a little puzzled about this and will ask our inspector about it at next opportunity, unless you can provide some documentation to go along with these "requirements".
Not trying to be an ass here, just looking for a little more info to back up some of these items. It may be that your inspector told you it was in the regulations, but I'm not seeing it.
-
-
teresa said:Hi guys....Happy Holidays! Thanks for all the amazing suggestions. I especially liked what Margo and Emily had to say about more natural options and solutions. I hate using any chemical, unfortunately, as I am ServSafe certified, I know there's not any completely natural sanitation solution on the market yet.
To answer a few questions that have been raised, at our shop, we use the quats sanitation tablets from GFS and HAVE tested them for the proper concentration. I just think it's a harsh formulation, and do think we could benefit from switching brands. Like Brady, I'm constantly washing my hands, as you're supposed to everytime you change tasks such as touch garbage, eat or touch your face, or what ever else that could contaminate. Also, sometimes I just have to wash to get the coffee off, because we go thru a lot of bean sales, and have a bulk grinder that has a few static issues. (maybe i'm a little ocd about the hand washing, but that's just me when handling food!)
And yes, we do use the solution to clean countertops and other surfaces, so hence the hands are constantly exposed even if I try to do the dishes in bulk. I'm not sure what else you could use to wash contact surfaces other than sanitizer (??). If anyone can recommend another quats that's affordable and easy to get or something else that is health dept approved and not so harsh, please let me know.
Teresa, you guys might consider switching to spraying on the sanitizer when you clean counters, tables, etc. Spray it on, let it sit, dry it off. Just as effective, and your hands don't get wet that way. Might help, if your dept of health will allow it.
Try the moisturizing antibacterial hand soap and see if that helps. I'm still inclined to think frequent handwashing is the main culprit.
Good luck.
Barista Exchange Partners
Barista Exchange Friends
Keep Barista Exchange Free
Are you enjoying Barista Exchange? Is it helping you promote your business and helping you network in this great industry? Donate today to keep it free to all members. Supporters can join the "Supporters Group" with a donation. Thanks!
© 2024 Created by Matt Milletto.
Powered by
