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Permalink Reply by Brady on May 19, 2010 at 10:57am

I believe that you have to use the stock double baskets in competition. Not a bad thought though.

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Permalink Reply by Fraser Jamieson on May 19, 2010 at 1:51pm

Hey Jared, don't knock 7 gram baskets! I have one on my desk for holding paper clips.

OK, I don't use it to make espresso but it's cool to have on my desk at home.

Jared Rutledge said:

i just had a thought - does anyone know if this guy only uses single baskets? he keeps talking about 7g for a single espresso, like he never serves doubles. i notice a lot of the italians do that. i doubt he's pulling each espresso individually at competition, but you never know i guess.

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Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on May 19, 2010 at 2:23pm

one of my employees pulls tasty shots out of a synesso single basket, but i've never had much luck with them.

i just wonder if the author of that article was on bar, and i said, "giorgio, give me espresso!" would he pull me a single with a single basket, split a double, or give me a 60ml double?

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Permalink Reply by Chris on May 19, 2010 at 2:57pm

Jared Rutledge said:

would he pull me a single with a single basket, split a double, or give me a 60ml double?

You'd get a single

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Permalink Reply by Brady on May 19, 2010 at 5:47pm

Chris said:

Jared Rutledge said:

would he pull me a single with a single basket, split a double, or give me a 60ml double?

You'd get a single

We should ask him... why isn't he on here, anyway? Anybody have his email address?

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Permalink Reply by Chris on May 20, 2010 at 1:35pm

Jared Rutledge said:

i just wonder if the author of that article was on bar, and i said, "giorgio, give me espresso!" would he pull me a single with a single basket, split a double, or give me a 60ml double?

I wanna change my answer, just a bit, please.
Most orders in Italy would be 'Un caffe, per favore'. You'd get a nod, and then if you were the only next customer, a single. If there were a line, you might get half a doppio. Giorgio being a hard-case traditionalist, I would venture a guess that you'd get the single, as he probably still sees the concession to the long line in the double spouted portafilter as a bit of a heresy.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on May 20, 2010 at 5:35pm

Giorgio was in several of the espresso labs I taught, and I never heard him mention any of this. I was actually surprised to read it, and certainly wasn't aware he was Italy's barista champ, although I knew he worked for Illy. I thought the small group from Illy were very friendly, and very respectful. What this article does articulate well is the difference between the definition of espresso here and in Europe. And that's not a bad thing. It's just different. It's an interesting read for sure, and there are some valid things in the article we should all take to heart. There's a great history in his own family and career, and that's to be respected with an eye to where espresso is today, at least here in America.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on May 20, 2010 at 5:37pm

And, seems like we did an Alternative Espresso lab in Charlotte that covered single baskets, didn't we Brady? We could get nothing that resembled tasty out of a single. I think they're the devil. ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on May 20, 2010 at 6:06pm

Just curious, how many different single baskets did you try? I suspect just as with double baskets there can be a huge difference. For instance while I run Lineas, I don't like the LM double basket at all much preferring the Synesso 14g ridgeless sloped wall double most of the time. (Not to be confused with the Synesso ridgeless 18g sloped wall 2.5 or triple ridged 21g) I haven't tried their single but need to order some more 14g's for another 4AV so will add one to the order.

OTOH can you imagine a shop that routinely is pulling 21g super ristretto's in the 15ml/0.5oz range trying to replicate THAT type of shot with a single basket!

Jason Dominy said:

And, seems like we did an Alternative Espresso lab in Charlotte that covered single baskets, didn't we Brady? We could get nothing that resembled tasty out of a single. I think they're the devil. ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on May 20, 2010 at 6:08pm

We tried two different single baskets. And both tasted like rubbish.

miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:

Just curious, how many different single baskets did you try? I suspect just as with double baskets there can be a huge difference. For instance while I run Lineas, I don't like the LM double basket at all much preferring the Synesso 14g ridgeless sloped wall double most of the time. (Not to be confused with the Synesso ridgeless 18g sloped wall 2.5 or triple ridged 21g) I haven't tried their single but need to order some more 14g's for another 4AV so will add one to the order.

OTOH can you imagine a shop that routinely is pulling 21g super ristretto's in the 15ml/0.5oz range trying to replicate THAT type of shot with a single basket!

Jason Dominy said:

And, seems like we did an Alternative Espresso lab in Charlotte that covered single baskets, didn't we Brady? We could get nothing that resembled tasty out of a single. I think they're the devil. ;-)

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Permalink Reply by John P on May 20, 2010 at 11:53pm

(sigh) Doesn't a properly trained barista learn how to pull a single first?

Studying the classical techniques will greatly improve the mastery of the modern applications.

Pulling singles = kata Pulling doubles = kumite

Everyone wants to be a great fighter. Fighting is sexy. Fighting is flashy and hip. Fighting is .... easy.

Without a true understanding of the bunkai (techniques) in kata, you will only be a great fighter. You will never master the technique.

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Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on May 21, 2010 at 4:41am

John P said:

(sigh) Doesn't a properly trained barista learn how to pull a single first?
Studying the classical techniques will greatly improve the mastery of the modern applications.
Pulling singles = kata Pulling doubles = kumite

Everyone wants to be a great fighter. Fighting is sexy. Fighting is flashy and hip. Fighting is .... easy.

Without a true understanding of the bunkai (techniques) in kata, you will only be a great fighter. You will never master the technique.

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