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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on May 5, 2009 at 12:25pm

Brady said:

Hmmm... sounds like I need to improve my half-caf technique.

One question for both Bob and Bryan - do you find that you grind your decaf at approximately the same setting as your regular, or are you grinding a little finer for the decaf? I find ours tastes best if I grind it a little finer and updose just a bit vs the regular. Perhaps this particle size difference is why I find these half-caf shots to be so lacking? I'm going to play with this a bit.

As far as how our decaf espresso is on its own, I'd have to say that its decent but not as good as it could be. I struggle with keeping the decaf espresso inventory as fresh as the regular. It is difficult, as our decaf espresso demand is miniscule. We've tried all sorts of approaches, currently freezing it in half-pound increments. It took me quite a while to accept this approach, but it actually gives us far better results than we were getting other ways. I'd love to just be able to get it delivered a pound at a time, but that's not possible with our current arrangement. I'll try negotiating this again in a few months... but I digress. We grind our decaf in a Mini, FWIW... kept immaculately clean.

Yeah... ours is noticeably finer, but I actually down-dose our decaf, not up-dose (16-17g in a triple naked basket).

Brady, I struggled with the same thing as far as freshness. That's why I just bit the bullet and started roasting it for the shop. We only go through about a pound a week, and come week five on that five pound bag we bought over a month ago, we were serving some nasty stuff. I couldn't deal with it. Yeah it was "just decaf," but that didn't mean it had to taste like hell (whatever that tastes like... probably like 5 week old decaf).

So yeah, brought a Behmor into the shop and roast on that 1/4-1/2lb at a time. It's not hard at all and our decaf is great now.

-bry

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Permalink Reply by Brady on May 5, 2009 at 12:50pm

Bryan Wray said:

Yeah... ours is noticeably finer, but I actually down-dose our decaf, not up-dose (16-17g in a triple naked basket).
Brady, I struggled with the same thing as far as freshness. That's why I just bit the bullet and started roasting it for the shop. We only go through about a pound a week, and come week five on that five pound bag we bought over a month ago, we were serving some nasty stuff. I couldn't deal with it. Yeah it was "just decaf," but that didn't mean it had to taste like hell (whatever that tastes like... probably like 5 week old decaf).

So yeah, brought a Behmor into the shop and roast on that 1/4-1/2lb at a time. It's not hard at all and our decaf is great now.

-bry

That Behmor approach would be ideal. BTW, I'm going to file that away: "5 week old decaf espresso - its what hell tastes like". I imagine that's true...

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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on May 5, 2009 at 3:27pm

Half-Caf? Sounds like heresy to me.

We'll do a half-caf cappuccino or latte but we charge an additional dollar.

Why? Because rather than split the basket with coffee and compromise the shot, we pull two separate baskets (one of each) that are great shots on their own and combine them in the drink.

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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on May 11, 2009 at 10:04pm

Brady said:

I'd love to just be able to get it delivered a pound at a time, but that's not possible with our current arrangement. I'll try negotiating this again in a few months... but I digress.

Are you saying your roaster won't sell you decaf in 1# bag? That is simply ludicrous. Negotiate my ass. Threaten to change roasters, and mean it. YOU are the customer.
Yeah, I own and run a cafe and I'm a roaster who also sells wholesale . Sure only selling big bags is easier and less work. Quality coffee ain't about easy. I'd never dream of not offering 1# decaf bags. Heck I offer wholesale customers choice of 1# or 12oz bags any coffee. Bigger bags too of course.

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Permalink Reply by Jesse -D-> on May 12, 2009 at 5:40am

That is funny, so they get a full shot anyway?

Jay Caragay said:

Half-Caf? Sounds like heresy to me.

We'll do a half-caf cappuccino or latte but we charge an additional dollar.

Why? Because rather than split the basket with coffee and compromise the shot, we pull two separate baskets (one of each) that are great shots on their own and combine them in the drink.

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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on May 12, 2009 at 5:50am

Mike is right, "quality coffee ain't about easy."

For us, decaf has long been a thorn in our side. First, the beans are so beat up due to the decaffeination process that their shelf life is narrower than regular coffee. We order our decaf in five pound bags and manage its' useful life with freezing.

To clarify, customers who order half-caf receive a full shot of decaf and a shot of caffeinated coffee. We pull separate baskets (and hence the price premium) because grind size and quantities are different. So, rather than give the customer a half-asses half-caf, we give them one we feel is representative of the quality we strive to provide, while meeting their requirements.

That said, I still think the half-caf is heresy and should be driven from our lands.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on May 12, 2009 at 6:13am

miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:

Brady said:

I'd love to just be able to get it delivered a pound at a time, but that's not possible with our current arrangement. I'll try negotiating this again in a few months... but I digress.

Are you saying your roaster won't sell you decaf in 1# bag? That is simply ludicrous. Negotiate my ass. Threaten to change roasters, and mean it. YOU are the customer.
Yeah, I own and run a cafe and I'm a roaster who also sells wholesale . Sure only selling big bags is easier and less work. Quality coffee ain't about easy. I'd never dream of not offering 1# decaf bags. Heck I offer wholesale customers choice of 1# or 12oz bags any coffee. Bigger bags too of course.

Thanks Mike. I agree, but feel bad now about the way that came across. We really like our roaster, they do a great job and have been extremely supportive of us.

As I understand it the thinking on this issue is that, of all the shops they do business with (and they have quite a few in the area) we're the only customer that's requesting this. They've suggested other ways that we could do our decaf, including the current process of freezing small increments. I frankly don't know at this point how much improvement we would get from this change, so want to get more info before proceeding.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on May 12, 2009 at 9:45am

Yes. It matters.

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Permalink Reply by Olivia Stubbings on May 26, 2009 at 7:52am

Yeah I'm thinking of getting a low caff blend from my roaster ... Does anyone have any experience of this?

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Vaaler on January 14, 2013 at 12:20pm

I do this as well for any double shot espresso drink. No waste, and the shot comes out a little better than straight decaf.

Bryan Wray said:

Agreed.

And it's really not that difficult to make a shot "half-calf." Run your decaf grinder for 2-3 seconds, your regular for 2-3 seconds, dose both of them into the portafilter. This type of half-calf I will do, but I won't pull two different singles.

In six years I've never had anyone order a half-calf straight up. I don't think I would cringe, but I also know that I would talk them into one or the other, haha. Our decaf 'spro is actually pretty good. I usually drink just as many decaf shots a day as I do regular shots.

-bry

miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:

If a customer orders their beverage half calf and it's your shops policy to pull half calf then yes it most assuredly matters. If a customer orders half calf and it's against your shops policy then it most assuredly matters to tell them you can't make a half calf because it's against shop policy, not just give them something they did not order.

Hell I had one person order a half calf straight shot a few days ago. I physically had to fight cringing, but I pulled it for him. I did not however serve it with my usual full straight shot service on little wooden platter with small glass sparkling water and Amaretto cookie. Hell no, only real straight shots get that. I could make that decision, I own the place.

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