Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jacob Casella on February 14, 2010 at 3:55am

I put the sauce/syrup in the cup, pull the espresso over top, stir a little if it needs it, then pour the steamed milk over top. We do steam chocolate sauce into the milk, for hot chocolates. Steaming syrups into your milk will distribute it all the way through, making a syrup-ier taste through the whole drink, which might not actually be what you want for a mocha, say.

The big downside to steaming the syrup in the milk (outside of equipment/taste concerns of steaming anything but milk) is that, unless your baristas can perfectly portion the milk every time, you're going to be throwing out the dissolved syrup with the wasted milk--making it hard to keep your drinks consistently flavored, and tacking on the cost of the syrup to the cost of the wasted milk.

I never let steamed milk sit for later drinks, or re-steam milk in the pitcher, if that's what you mean by "using it more than once". When you steam a pitcher of milk, you should know exactly what drinks it's going towards, and make just enough.

Avoiding waste on milk is all about portioning. I work with training baristas a lot so they can get an idea of how much milk should expand, and what amount they really need-- a common newbie mistake is to see that they have to make, say, a 16-oz mocha, and then they pour 16 oz of milk in the steam pitcher and steam it. After you factor in milk expansion, espresso + syrup, a little room to put whip cream on top--you might only need 10oz of milk of or so. That kind of thing adds up. Training is the way to prevent it; you can't count on people figuring it out themselves if they think that high waste is just normal. Sometimes when I'm training, on the third day or so, I threaten to make the trainee drink all the excess milk, and God help them if they're lactose-intolerant.

Espresso waste is a trickier creature. I'm still working on my own dosing/distributing to reduce waste when I'm on the bar. Griding to order is vital--don't let that dosing chamber fill up. And, of course, you need to be pulling good shots consistently so you're not tossing super long/short/blonde/whatever shots with great frequency.

There are a lot of good resources out there for this stuff; I strongly suggest Scott Rao's "The Professional Barista's Handbook"; of all the coffee books on my shelf, it's been the most hands-on useful.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shadow on February 14, 2010 at 6:23am

I always put the sauce/syrup in the cup first, extract the double shot into the cup, which helps to melt the thicker sauces, then stir everything together until well blended. I then steam the milk and depending on the drink/customer it is for I either fold the milk into the espresso/sauce and or syrup mixture to blend it all together nicely or just pour the milk. Some customers like to get microfoam first then taste the really good stuff toward the end of the drink as they sip away. Kind of layered and gets sweeter as they sip. Then some like it all blended together nicely.

I also don't like to steam the sauce/syrup with the milk because it can contaminate the wands unless you clean them really good after every use.. also might lead to wasted syrups/sauces like was mentioned in earlier reply...

I only extract/use doubles in ALL drinks as we only offer 12 and 16 oz. I have ALOT of first time customers ask for "an extra shot in there" because so many local places use singles in pretty much everything. I simply tell them I only do doubles and if it's not stout enough I'll be glad to tweak it, which I hardly ever have to do once they taste what is there already. I never have leftover espresso because I pulled only for what is needed for each drink. If a customer asks for a single only or an extra single by any chance I simply pull a short double so there is nothing left to use over or waste. IF there was I'd be taking care of it anyway.

For the milk part of it... I take into account the drink size I'll be making and what type it is... for a latte you need a bit more milk than for a cappuccino, etc. I just eyeball it based on cup size and expansion rate... also whether I need to leave a bit of room for whipped cream. If there is any milk leftover I will use it in the next drink as long as it never sits for more than 5 minutes MAX. Otherwise I'll use it in my own drink if I'm craving something milk based. You will have waste, thing is to minimize it.

I often get requests for 3 different drink types at once, like a latte, hot chocolate and cappuccino. I can steam 28-32 oz. of milk in one pitcher and make it work for all 3 drinks just by portioning it properly with steamed milk/microfoam needed. Just a matter of pouring and blending...

I try to never use the steam pitcher without washing it after every use. If really busy I will give it a quick rinse, but never use a pitcher over and over without cleaning as often as possible. I see so many local places that will use the same pitcher or even leave leftover milk sitting for 15 mins. or more and re-use it over and over. Same with espresso.... those same places will use leftover shots regardless of how long they've been sitting. I guess that's why their customers are coming our way...

Thing is.... regarding all the things you're asking about... try different approaches to see what you like best. Also ask your customers how they like the drink and if there is anything they'd change. Anytime I try a new type of bean, new sauces, etc. I always ask for their input because a regular customer can usually spot changes very quickly and most are willing to let you know if they don't like a particular change. I personally think there really is no RIGHT/WRONG way to do most things in life... just what works for you is all that really matters. I recently decided to work with my roaster to develop a specific espresso blend. I have to like what I'm serving to have the confidence to serve it to others. Later!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Conley on February 14, 2010 at 3:40pm

I've worked in places that do both. I think that for a few select drinks it adds a little something in the way of evenness of flavor —say, a cafe caramel; having the vanilla incorporated evenly through the milk gives it a little something. However, you have to be on-point with your milk portioning. And I wouldn't necessarily suggest doing it for every drink.
Some drinks are better left a bit uneven in flavoring. The experience builds a bit toward the bottom of the cup.

If you're pulling your shots into the cup over your syrups, a bit of swirling as the shot pulls is usually enough to break things up enough for your milk pouring to finish the job of mixing.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Brady on February 14, 2010 at 6:37pm

Syrup in the cup, espresso on top.

Chocolate with the milk.

We dump any milk that is left over after the pour, unless there is another drink order on the rail that can use it. No resteamed milk, ever. Ever.

My trick to minimizing milk waste is to use several sizes of pitchers and memorize the pitcher's "landmarks". I use the bottom of the spout as a reference, and think in terms of finger widths below the spout. I use the 12oz, 20oz, 32oz, and 50oz(ish) straight sided pitchers for capps, chai, lattes, and multiple-number drinks respectively.

We do complete rinses between every use, with no visible milk residue on the pitcher before it is used.

Waste minimization boils down to training for consistency.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Bambi Clark on February 14, 2010 at 7:43pm

I know places that steam milk for a drink and put the leftover milk in the fridge for the next drink.
I do not do that but wondered if that was something people were doing to have less milk waste.
I appreciate any feedback on this issue.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Conley on February 14, 2010 at 8:02pm

I would suggest that while making a 12 oz. latte. etc., several times through the day, paying close attention to the specific location of the milk level, relative to where the spout begins. Should there be excess, adjust accordingly until you find a good point of reference relative to the pitchers you're using.

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion