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Permalink Reply by Jason Shipley on November 20, 2009 at 9:27am

I uploaded a guide. It's very easy.

Attachments:

• LaMarzoccoLinand GB5 training manual.pdf, 8.8 MB

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Permalink Reply by Daniel Mueller on November 20, 2009 at 5:19pm

hey dude,

thanks for the heads-up. it worked like a charm. the volume for a double was set to a solid three ounces before. i have it down to 2.5 now. the shots are much creamier, richer.

-dan

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Permalink Reply by Banks Thomas on November 20, 2009 at 5:32pm

I recommend not using the programed buttons, they just cause your baristas to depend on them. Just get a timer and two shot glasses, if you get 2oz of espresso in 20 to 30 seconds and they look nice then you will have good shots.

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Permalink Reply by Daniel Mueller on November 20, 2009 at 5:42pm

you're absolutely right, and it is a bit lazy.

new and improved espresso theory classes start tomorrow.

-dan

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Permalink Reply by Jason Shipley on November 20, 2009 at 6:52pm

I understand and agree with this in theory. I think it's easy for baritas to get lazy when you automate processes too much. My feeling is that when there is a line out the door you should be able to depend on volumetric control, baristas should be trained to watch for blonding and extraction time. I don't see why you can't have passionate baristas that watch their shots and really care about quality and free them up to steam milk or prep their next cup while their shots finish with volumetric control.

Banks Thomas said:

I recommend not using the programed buttons, they just cause your baristas to depend on them. Just get a timer and two shot glasses, if you get 2oz of espresso in 20 to 30 seconds and they look nice then you will have good shots.

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Permalink Reply by Banks Thomas on November 20, 2009 at 8:27pm

I don't think it takes anymore time. I've trained many fast barista's in busy cafes to use the machine this way. I've just seen too many bad shots being poured using the volume control and way too many shots sitting in shot glasses for way to long while the barista is busy doing something else.

Jason Shipley said:

I understand and agree with this in theory. I think it's easy for baritas to get lazy when you automate processes too much. My feeling is that when there is a line out the door you should be able to depend on volumetric control, baristas should be trained to watch for blonding and extraction time. I don't see why you can't have passionate baristas that watch their shots and really care about quality and free them up to steam milk or prep their next cup while their shots finish with volumetric control.

Banks Thomas said:

I recommend not using the programed buttons, they just cause your baristas to depend on them. Just get a timer and two shot glasses, if you get 2oz of espresso in 20 to 30 seconds and they look nice then you will have good shots.

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Permalink Reply by Daniel Mueller on November 20, 2009 at 10:55pm

i felt for a moment like letting the discussion run its course, but, like a shot pulling just a tad longer than expected, its time to press that swirly button and cut in.

(sorry, i like metaphors)

okay, i understand that the use of volumetric control is, like, frowned upon, but you cant really blame bad shots on the volume control. if the barista really is good, he or she will have the grinder dialed, circumventing these bad volumetric shots you speak of. i really see the buttons as just another tool to make us more efficient. i see using the volumetric controls as a positive thing, like using a doserless grinder. there's still plenty of control, you're just eliminating waste.

using the buttons doesn't make a barista lazy, if he or she is doing right by the grinder, and by tamping technique, etc.

besides which, i've seen HUNDREDS of shots dumped by great baristas because the grind wasn't just right, or they were a little short. Sometimes shots that have gone bad haven't REALLY gone bad. sometime's, the barista lets the god shot go to his or her head.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on November 21, 2009 at 6:46am

Sorry, Daniel, it doesn't quite work that way. This discussion is going to run its course, regardless of when it blondes... you can pull your cup anytime you want though. (OK, I'll stop now...)

The benefit I see of having the buttons programmed and usable is mostly in places where you are pulling shots directly into ceramics of varying size. Yes, a well-trained barista learns what a proper-volume double looks like in all sizes of ceramics... but you will see significant variation drink-to-drink and barista-to-barista. If you use shotglasses, not as big of a deal.

I look at it as kind of being the same as using a thermometer to steam milk. You ought to be able to steam milk to the right temperature without using one, however your drink-to-drink barista-to-barista consistency will be better if the tool is used, at very least to "check in" occasionally.

I think it comes down to how much variation you are willing to tolerate in your drinks.

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Permalink Reply by chris ganger on December 2, 2009 at 6:20pm

I just wanted to throw this out there. both of our shop use av lineas. we pull all manual shots. before the change very few if any of our baristas were aware of the parameters for a proper extraction. that said, I do still find them functional, but in use for a group flushing temp surfing use only. it allows several different preprogrammed flushes for use during various levels of business. just throwing the thought out there. still a useful tool and does free the barista to confidently flush while prepping the shot and not worry they are dropping the temp too greatly.

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Permalink Reply by Simon Ouderkirk on December 3, 2009 at 5:41am

I think the question at stake with pre-programmed vs. manual is twofold: the question of consistency, and the question of training. I don't think that there is a hard and fast answer between our two options, it seems to me that the pre-programmed buttons are something like training wheels, especially at high-volume shops.

It isn't always easy to explain espresso theory and extraction techniques to beginning baristi, especially if they came on board with the too-familiar 'just a jerb' mindset. I think that for folks who are just beginning their journey, or never intend to progress down the specialty coffee path, pre-programmed buttons are just the ticket - it ensures a certain level of drink quality regardless of barista skill (assuming that the grinder has been dialed), which is a good thing, I reckon. That being said, if you want to be the best that you can be, eventually you have to lose the training wheels.

Full disclosure: I'm a manual guy, but when I have a line of six empty cups and more on the way, I use the pre-programmed buttons. One guy on a three-group already has a lot to worry about!

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Permalink Reply by Eric Beavers on December 3, 2009 at 7:45am

I'm just going to put my two sense into the tip jar here....and possibly jump on the forming bandwagon.

While I agree about the necessity of barista training to the point where they should be able to manually pull shot after shot with exaction - when it comes down to the rubber hitting the road, it's never quite that easy. That's why I think the programmed buttons come in handy. And like has been stated on here clearly - it's easier to train the barista to really focus on the grind and making sure it's calibrated correctly shot to shot...and not have them worry about the volume. I'd rather my baristas really excel at one part of the process...than to haphazardly maintain multiple parts. And with this process, the shot consistency is almost perfect - which from the consumer standpoint is what matters the most.

Like Simon said though - I agree that as far as my baristas go...the goal is for them to lose the training wheels and not have to RELY on the volumetric programming. But for quality and consistency....they're definitely the ticket.

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