Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Adam Ptasnik on November 12, 2008 at 6:55am

A ristretto shot of the Midnight Lotus... in a warn demitasse cup:) Served by a friendly barista who really cares.

Permalink Reply by Brady on November 12, 2008 at 5:19pm

I'd love to see a really good hardcore style shop open... trad espresso - one size only, no espresso in to-goes. Brew to-order only, with a constantly changing selection of really great coffees - COEs, auction lots etc. Maybe a featured espresso - SO or guest. You know, a menu that makes it REALLY hard to make up your mind.

Staff knows what they are doing and is nice to you. Space is comfortable but funky and has cool music on the radio. Heck, lets go for perfect and park a roaster in the front window.

That said, I don't really travel too far to visit shops. I know there are some killer shops within 3 hours that I've yet to visit (Octane, 3 cups, etc). This is just kind of my vision.

Good question.

Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on November 16, 2008 at 1:00pm

I want more Octanes. More shops that have a real good feel, and very diverse artistically and culturally. I love all the different functions Octane does out of there. I love that their baristas are so freaking good, all of 'em. I love that it uses lots of great natural lighting. Heck, I love everything about that shop. I know it won't work everywhere, but sure do wish we had something like that in Charlotte.

Permalink Reply by Dave Delchamps on November 16, 2008 at 3:31pm

Yeah I was at Octane today and it's just hard to find that level of quality. The biggest thing is convincing shop owners that it's worth their time and money to implement such a rigorous training program that ensures consistency and super high quality. Red Eye's about to open up in the bottle works in Athens, GA this upcoming weekend, I got to meet the owner and he seems pretty legit about quality and passion.

That being said, I think its important that we don't focus on any one particular shop in general to be the standard we all shoot for, but I think it's important that we try to exceed the standard so that the culture and the coffee are advanced.
Jason Dominy said:

I want more Octanes. More shops that have a real good feel, and very diverse artistically and culturally. I love all the different functions Octane does out of there. I love that their baristas are so freaking good, all of 'em. I love that it uses lots of great natural lighting. Heck, I love everything about that shop. I know it won't work everywhere, but sure do wish we had something like that in Charlotte.

Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on November 16, 2008 at 4:38pm

Well, this is a good discussion. Thanks for starting it Nick. Here's my thoughts Dave. (And BTW, are you talking about the bottling factory off Prince by the Co-Op? That's a cool area. There used to be a great Jittery Joes down there in an old church. Charlie and Matt used to roast out of it, before he moved downtown.) Anywho, yes it is hard to find a place like Octane in the Southeast. I like Open Eye in Carrboro. It's spacious, the baristas are great, and the owner cares.
As far as your other point, though, I will have to respectfully disagree. I remember the first time I went into Blue Sky downtown Athens. I was mesmerized by the place, still to this day have a picture on my desktop to remind me of the golden era of Blue Sky. So, when I went to open The Bean'ry, I had in my mind a standard, and wanted it to be at least as good as, if not better than Blue Sky. It gave me something to stride for. A goal. And, through the help of Charlie and some old school Jittery Joes baristas, I was able to pull off something very cool, and a really good coffee shop to boot. But I always had Blue Sky in the back of my mind as to what I wanted.
I am not saying there should be a thousand identical Octanes, just a thousand shops that follow through like they do. Shops that care about their customers, their staff, and their world. Shops that work just as hard at pulling the perfect shot as they do on decorating with burlap bags and comfy couches. Shops that really are community centers, like our own Dilworth Coffee on East Blvd. in Charlotte, which this month turns 20 years old. Shops that are a direct extension of the community they are in. Shops that know that latte art, which is cool in itself, doesn't match a perfectly espresso or capp. Shops that feature music on a consistent basis, original stuff, not just covers. Shops that showcase the best the community has to offer in terms of local art and sculpture.
Those are the things I see as things I would want in a shop. Idealistic? Hardly. I have seen glimpses of these in many shops across the Southeast. And again, it gives us all something to work towards. As we move forward in the coffee industry, understanding what our customers are looking for, and what this question is about is paramount. It is critical. If I can say anything about this point, and not to stray, it's KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER.


Dave Delchamps said:

Yeah I was at Octane today and it's just hard to find that level of quality. The biggest thing is convincing shop owners that it's worth their time and money to implement such a rigorous training program that ensures consistency and super high quality. Red Eye's about to open up in the bottle works in Athens, GA this upcoming weekend, I got to meet the owner and he seems pretty legit about quality and passion.

That being said, I think its important that we don't focus on any one particular shop in general to be the standard we all shoot for, but I think it's important that we try to exceed the standard so that the culture and the coffee are advanced.
Jason Dominy said:

I want more Octanes. More shops that have a real good feel, and very diverse artistically and culturally. I love all the different functions Octane does out of there. I love that their baristas are so freaking good, all of 'em. I love that it uses lots of great natural lighting. Heck, I love everything about that shop. I know it won't work everywhere, but sure do wish we had something like that in Charlotte.

Permalink Reply by Brady on November 16, 2008 at 5:28pm

Dave Delchamps said:

Yeah I was at Octane today and it's just hard to find that level of quality. The biggest thing is convincing shop owners that it's worth their time and money to implement such a rigorous training program that ensures consistency and super high quality....

As well as commit to the extra expense that is involved with using only the best beans and ingredients, the extra effort and expense of maintaining fresh inventory... there is lots of extra effort that we-that-care put in to making a quality shop. The high-quality shop concept can be a VERY hard sell to an owner, especially since so many customers don't seem to care. I think it is worth doing, but it almost seems like the owner has to really want it to be that way for it to happen.

Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on November 16, 2008 at 5:35pm

And that's a good point. There are few places in the SE that have a customer base that even comes close to being willing to pay for all of those extra value added things. It will happen, we just aren't there yet in most places.

Brady said:

Dave Delchamps said:

Yeah I was at Octane today and it's just hard to find that level of quality. The biggest thing is convincing shop owners that it's worth their time and money to implement such a rigorous training program that ensures consistency and super high quality....

As well as commit to the extra expense that is involved with using only the best beans and ingredients, the extra effort and expense of maintaining fresh inventory... there is lots of extra effort that we-that-care put in to making a quality shop. The high-quality shop concept can be a VERY hard sell to an owner, especially since so many customers don't seem to care. I think it is worth doing, but it almost seems like the owner has to really want it to be that way for it to happen.

Permalink Reply by Nick Guidry on November 16, 2008 at 6:19pm

i'm really glad to see this discussion get some feedback going. I agree with everything Jason and Brady have said. However, my next question is, can a shop such as that described by you both (Jason & Brady) survive in the southeast? (outside of the ATL region) Lets say N.C. for example. Could a shop like this survive?

Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on November 16, 2008 at 6:29pm

I would say if it had a chance, it would be in a place more like Chapel Hill, or maybe Asheville. Places a little more culturally open, if that makes sense. Brady can tell you, but Charlotte is full of bankers and yuppies, and not as many people who would even appreciate something like Octane. (I know that's a broad generalization, but I just call it like I see it.) All the coffeehouses I know that are like the ones we are describing are in good college town environments. Think, Daily Grind in Chapel Hill, Izzy's in Asheville, Octane near Georgia Tech, Cool Beans in Columbia, Shade Tree (R.I.P.) that was across from Duke, Jittery Joes in Athens, GA.
There has to be a crowd condusive to the culture we are trying to create in a shop like this. That's all I'm sayin.

Nick Guidry said:

i'm really glad to see this discussion get some feedback going. I agree with everything Jason and Brady have said. However, my next question is, can a shop such as that described by you both (Jason & Brady) survive in the southeast? (outside of the ATL region) Lets say N.C. for example. Could a shop like this survive?

Permalink Reply by Zechariah White on November 17, 2008 at 1:49pm

When I saw what a thread this conversation had generated I thought I'd take the chance, as one who hopes to start my own shop/roaster someday, to chime in.

I am coffee-obsessed and have worked in shops for years. That said, I like shops that appeal to my sensibilities: couches over tables, coffee over froo-froo-accinos, and edgy music over jazz standards [not that i don't like jazz]. I want to walk into a shop and see three things: 1. A place to sit down comfortably and plug in my laptop, 2. a high quality espresso machine with no automated functions, 3. a friendly barista who will talk me through my options and know more about the coffee she is serving than I do. Perhaps equally important is that the coffee shop have all of these things and still really stand out in my mind. In order to do so, the shop's decor should really express the PERSONALITY of the owner or at least the shop.

I think that's what we're all getting at so far- shops can and should have personality.

Of course with our circle being what it is, an emphasis on quality is important. Without coming off as pretentious or cooler-than-thou it is important for we coffee geeks to demonstrate to our clients how we bring them quality. Many of us have differing philosophies about exactly how that is done. Which brings me back to the shop's personality.

If I were to design a store, I'd use all recycled (or at least renewable) materials to do it. I would power the store using green energy as much as possible. I would provide literature on coffee, economics, and agriculture as they relate to the consumer and the producer. I would sell hemp t-shirts printed with clean ink and place a strong emphasis on the importance of "for-here" beverages. And, I would only hire people who I really thought cared about the product and the people involved.

Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on November 17, 2008 at 2:09pm

Good thoughts Zech. Thanks for joining in the conversation!

Permalink Reply by Brent hall on November 17, 2008 at 2:11pm

Man...am I glad about this post. I have a few things to answer to here. Mostly Nick's question about can a shop prescribed to Brady and Jason's standards survive outside of ATL. Absolutely...and it happens in the oddest places. I can honestly say that Charlotte does not have the greatest shops. It would great to see a shop like this open, be accepted and thrive in the area. And I believe the customer base it there to support something to that caliber. Actually, I firmly believe that Charlotte is SCREAMING for a shop like this to open up. But what do people want...a great shot of espresso and a knowledgeable friendly staff? What about the other fun stuff. In Charlotte, what I typically see is a good staff, lacking skills, but they are trying. What I don't see are shops that are able to be a third place to a wide array of people, be it that they picked the wrong location, or have a confusing menu, or just don't have the seating to accommodate the customer base. Charlotte needs a place that prepares it's own sandwiches, has wicked awesome espresso, great drip coffee (drip or brew to order), and in my own opinion a great beer and wine selection.

Enough of Charlotte...I could go on and on. I have seen a great shop outside of ATL. Not to promote my competitors, but Metto Cafe in Mt. Pleasant is AWESOME. They don't have the beer and wine, but they do not need it. They have a great set of baristas who...what's the word...oh yeh, care. I still have yet to have a bad shot or experience there. they carry zoka, and they do it amazingly well.

My two cents...or caffeine raged ramble. ..one last thing for Charlotte...Southend, Plaza Midwood, and NoDa are dying for great espresso.

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