Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on May 23, 2010 at 2:12pm

Marshall's post reminds me that it may help you not only to secure a good architect designer but also a person who serves as sort of an expediter who will oversee your project for you (in exchange for a fee). A good project manager is one who knows the construction game and how to deal with contractors and the trades. This person will keep the project on schedule and on budget - a really good person can even save you money by negotiating lower rates and terms such as penalties for the contractors that fail to perform to the agreed schedule.

A good friend recently hired a person like this to oversee the construction of a new facility and has trimmed thousands off the original estimate. I think of my latest project and how a person like that could have saved my company months of time and thousands of dollars - both in project costs and lost revenue because of contractor and jurisdictional delays. Well worth the expense, in my opinion.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jason Shipley on May 23, 2010 at 3:08pm

Paying for a great detailed set of plans is a must, good plans don't come cheap but over the course of the project will certainly pay for themselves. For our new shop we had our architect administer the bidding process, we had 9 qualified bidders and the architect can make sure that each bidder is to the exact same standard. In the end there was over $100,000 between our highest and lowest bidder. We disqualified the lowest bidder after finding that they had done business under 3 different names in the past year. After bids were submitted we value engineered the project with the lowest 3 remaining bidders and contracted with the one that was able to fulfill our vision for the best value. It's a great time to be building something.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Vince on May 23, 2010 at 11:35pm

What city are you in? Lean about all the code issues. Changing the CUP is a big deal and depending on the building and health issues can really cost. Sometimes the city building wants things one way and the health dept. wants it another. Develop a good relationship with the person who draws up you plans and get a contractor who is familiar with food service in you area. Do your homework, I've seen a few people that wind up taking twice as long and spending twice as much. that alone can kill your concept. Good Luck!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by mo'joe on May 24, 2010 at 10:22pm

sadly, 6 months or so is about right to get before a Municipal Board for a vote up or down. While planning to make application for a "change of use," I found out when and where it convenes and made it a point to start attending the meetings.
besides putting your finger on pulse of local politics and issues, you find there's probably a number of civic association-type folks who are regulars at such meetings.
reach out to them! while they may not wield power, they know who's who in the way of elected or appointed officials and there's usually one or 2 at least who frequently address the Board during public commentary. willing vocal supporters of their ilk will be important come hearing-time. due to the public nature of your hearing, i'd bet a public mailing by return receipt to all property owners within a certain radius of your property is required. if there's anybody else already shilling coffee (even bad) or vying for the same customers, be sure that they'll be down to lodge their opposition.
you can find out who and where to direct this notice to by looking at the tax map, found the assessors office, possibly online too depending how web savvy your municipality is.
I'd also start looking into how well your space conforms to the requirements of your proposed occupancy-type, probably "A-2" (assembly) as defined by the ICC building & fire code, which have been adopted verbatim by most jurisdictions and authorities. be careful though, some have more restrictive local standards, common in larger cities like NYC.
besides the health & building dept.s, any change in occupancy use, say from B-2 (business) to A-2, likely will involve a fire marshal. my experience has been that they were the most difficult to deal with, particularly since in NY they are considered law enforcement who are armed and have full power of arrest, thus have the swagger of a highway trooper (think Jim Carry as Fire Marshal Bill). don't believe everything they're saying either, they didn't write the code so it's possible they're mistaken about some point of interpretation. if you or your design professional is in doubt about a local official's determination, except in a case of more restrictive local standards, a code official at the state-level will have final say.
In my case, had I not done so, I would've installed a completely unnecessary sprinkler system into not only my space but the whole building as well as needed to obtain variance due the tile floor I'd installed in the basement, which according the FM affected (not kidding) the floor to ceiling height. fighting that point wasted nearly 2 months but saved at least 20-30k.
the real pisser is that right or wrong, it isn't any sweat off their back, they get paid whether you ever manage to get open or not.
make to also reach out to members of the Board you'll be appearing before, figure out who votes together and who is chairperson. usually its a mayor or supervisor, so discussing you proposed biz w/ them first--before signing a lease or contracting a design profession--will give you some indication of how the vote might go.
what about the landlord? does he expect you to sign a lease and pay full rent while you don't yet have the use approved...definitely not a favorable sign of a good landlord. neither is it if he's seems like real stickler or otherwise resistant, when proactively fostering your growth in the beginning is only going to lead to a happy long-term tenant.
and if you don't get any TI $, then make sure you get buildout rent concessions of some kind (3-6 mon. is standard). realize that undertaking a change the use is ultimately going increase the value of LL's property.
if it's not in the expertise of your regular attorney, (i might anyway) then have an attorney who specializes in commercial lease review everything, it may seem like a lot of legal costs, but believe me, it is money spent.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by christopher myers on May 25, 2010 at 9:22am

Thanks for the bitter medicine mo joe (and everyone). Sounds like getting in touch with the landlord and the diner across the street should be the next step. I wouldn't think a diner would consider us competition, but who knows. A designer and attorney sound like the best way to expedite the process, though it seems like a good way to lose a lot of money if the application doesn't go through. Any way of getting around that? I know with this place, we'd sign the lease and if we don't get the permits, we can back out. The bitch of it is, just a few blocks down, zoning is much more lax (oakland instead of berkeley) but I really like this building. I know one of those people you're talking about, who go to all the meetings and know everything about local politics. Met him at the cafe I was working at (hooray for cafe networking!) so I'll get in touch with him too.

Again thank you all for sharing your expertise. I should be paying you. If you come around here I will pay you in espresso when we open :)

mo'joe said:

sadly, 6 months or so is about right to get before a Municipal Board for a vote up or down. While planning to make application for a "change of use," I found out when and where it convenes and made it a point to start attending the meetings.
besides putting your finger on pulse of local politics and issues, you find there's probably a number of civic association-type folks who are regulars at such meetings.
reach out to them! while they may not wield power, they know who's who in the way of elected or appointed officials and there's usually one or 2 at least who frequently address the Board during public commentary. willing vocal supporters of their ilk will be important come hearing-time. due to the public nature of your hearing, i'd bet a public mailing by return receipt to all property owners within a certain radius of your property is required. if there's anybody else already shilling coffee (even bad) or vying for the same customers, be sure that they'll be down to lodge their opposition.
you can find out who and where to direct this notice to by looking at the tax map, found the assessors office, possibly online too depending how web savvy your municipality is.
I'd also start looking into how well your space conforms to the requirements of your proposed occupancy-type, probably "A-2" (assembly) as defined by the ICC building & fire code, which have been adopted verbatim by most jurisdictions and authorities. be careful though, some have more restrictive local standards, common in larger cities like NYC.
besides the health & building dept.s, any change in occupancy use, say from B-2 (business) to A-2, likely will involve a fire marshal. my experience has been that they were the most difficult to deal with, particularly since in NY they are considered law enforcement who are armed and have full power of arrest, thus have the swagger of a highway trooper (think Jim Carry as Fire Marshal Bill). don't believe everything they're saying either, they didn't write the code so it's possible they're mistaken about some point of interpretation. if you or your design professional is in doubt about a local official's determination, except in a case of more restrictive local standards, a code official at the state-level will have final say.
In my case, had I not done so, I would've installed a completely unnecessary sprinkler system into not only my space but the whole building as well as needed to obtain variance due the tile floor I'd installed in the basement, which according the FM affected (not kidding) the floor to ceiling height. fighting that point wasted nearly 2 months but saved at least 20-30k.
the real pisser is that right or wrong, it isn't any sweat off their back, they get paid whether you ever manage to get open or not.
make to also reach out to members of the Board you'll be appearing before, figure out who votes together and who is chairperson. usually its a mayor or supervisor, so discussing you proposed biz w/ them first--before signing a lease or contracting a design profession--will give you some indication of how the vote might go.
what about the landlord? does he expect you to sign a lease and pay full rent while you don't yet have the use approved...definitely not a favorable sign of a good landlord. neither is it if he's seems like real stickler or otherwise resistant, when proactively fostering your growth in the beginning is only going to lead to a happy long-term tenant.
and if you don't get any TI $, then make sure you get buildout rent concessions of some kind (3-6 mon. is standard). realize that undertaking a change the use is ultimately going increase the value of LL's property.
if it's not in the expertise of your regular attorney, (i might anyway) then have an attorney who specializes in commercial lease review everything, it may seem like a lot of legal costs, but believe me, it is money spent.

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page