Supportive vs Competetive (and not in a good way) Coffee Culture
I've been to cities that have a great coffee culture, and all of the baristi and owners and even customers and vendors will support a community event. Be it a jam, a tasting, a cupping, or just a get together, the whole coffee community will pull together and all have a great time.
On the other hand, I've been to places where there are nice and competent folk at various quality roasters and coffee shops around an area, and each will bad mouth the other in an effort to elevate themselves. How do you get the former to be more like the latter?
It's like watching a bucket of blue crab. no need for a lid, if ever any one crab starts to get up on the rim and look like he's going over the side to escape, sure enough, the only thing that they'll band together to do is to pull him back down.
Your local coffee culture is a pond. Anything that you do to make the water better for you makes the water better for the whole pond. Anything that other coffee shops do to improve the water near their shop makes the water better for the whole pond.
Anyone who pisses in someone else' water will be swimming in their own urine, too, though.
How do you teach shop owners to be supportive while being competitive?
On the other hand, I've been to places where there are nice and competent folk at various quality roasters and coffee shops around an area, and each will bad mouth the other in an effort to elevate themselves. How do you get the former to be more like the latter?
It's like watching a bucket of blue crab. no need for a lid, if ever any one crab starts to get up on the rim and look like he's going over the side to escape, sure enough, the only thing that they'll band together to do is to pull him back down.
Your local coffee culture is a pond. Anything that you do to make the water better for you makes the water better for the whole pond. Anything that other coffee shops do to improve the water near their shop makes the water better for the whole pond.
Anyone who pisses in someone else' water will be swimming in their own urine, too, though.
How do you teach shop owners to be supportive while being competitive?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on
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How to get the former to be like the latter? Good question and one that I think should be asked more within our community. The only answer that comes to mind is to exemplify your ideals.
If you believe that the business should be about community, then be that. If you're against bad-mouthing other companies and baristas, don't do it. Don't be lured into those conversations. Demonstrate the alternative and let your respect grow.
Those individuals who choose to denigrate others in order to promote themselves have personal issues that are not worth your time and effort addressing. They want to make a name for themselves or attain respect within the industry. Truth is that those who attain real respect are the ones who demonstrate character and integrity rather than those who talk about their supposed character and integrity.
While it's not an immediate solution, by demonstrating rather than merely giving lip service, you give the opportunity to those following a different path to see your results and, possibly, adopt your way of thinking. If they can't see or choose not to see your path and maintain that of the "crab mentality" then their respect and standing within the industry will be a hollow one indeed.
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Vaaler on
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Chris,
You make a very good point. Their are ways to be supportive AND competitive.
We are a community for a reason. It should be our main priority to be the voice of the coffee culture. And we should "improve the water around us." We are trying to educate everyday consumers, are we not? So, what are we really teaching and showing them?
The only competition their should be is whatever makes a cafe' different from everyone else. Being different is good for variety to accommodate customers' different tastes and atmosphere. That and friendly Jams. We are the "little guys" and must stick together if we are to survive along the corporate giants.
If a shop can't be competitive and supportive, then they shouldn't be in business because they are in it for the wrong reasons.
That's just my opinion.
Jennifer
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Permalink Reply by Jason Shipley on
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I keep reading this thread and thinking that this starts with the attitude that we never disparage our "corporate" competitors.
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Permalink Reply by Mike M on
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Great discussion Chris.
I think a great deal of our competitive nature has to do with the consumer culture and advertising industry that characterizes our communities. I believe we, as individuals, have become alienated from one another and have been taught to judge our value not by the merit gained from helping our friends/family/community members live enriched lives, but simply by comparing how much more wealth/power we've gained relative to those around us. We simply do not value community the way I feel we should. We box ourselves in our houses and our cars.. We see our daily lives as stressful and tell ourselves that the only way to relieve stress is through consumerism, or by leaving the communities in which we live on trips and vacations..
How much more disassociated with the world can we possibly become before we finally feel at ease?
I realize I'm talking a lot about individuals, but businesses have similar competitive desires and similar degrees of alienation from the communities in which they serve.
I'm reading a GREAT book that I would highly recommend for baristas, coffee shop owners, and others who enjoy the ideal coffee culture as you have described in the first couple of sentences and plan to blog my thoughts on the book as I make my way through it. The book is called, "The Great Good Place" by Ray Oldenburg. The book is about the 'Third Place' that members of a community gather other than home or work to simply enjoy the company of others in an informal social setting.
I agree with what Jay and Jennifer said. In attempting to set the trend, to be the example to follow, the shop owners first must set the example, extend the olive branch, show that they want to become staples in the communities in which they live and work.
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Permalink Reply by Graham Martin Byers on
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I really don't know if there if a universally effective way of teaching people (coffee shop owners in particular) the beauty and effectiveness that accompanies such a thing as support. It seems to me like it must be a personal trial for the individual.
I love your analogy... You have a great wat of looking at a concept like community.
-Graham.
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Permalink Reply by Marek on
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I can think of one small Chicago chain that has an amazingly high opinion of itself... my personal joke is that they are the Donald Trump of coffee... if they keep telling everybody how great they are... sooner or later... people will be oh... yea, that company is great... These guys ... who shall rename nameless are building quite a name for themselves but doing so on the backs of everybody else.... because all they do is trash talk the industry.
The attitude is ... well, thank goodness we are here to save you...because before we came along you had never had a good cup of coffee... but ... now that you're met us... we're going to fix all that.
it's annoying ... it's petty and it is going to bite them on the ass...
Just sayin'
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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Marek said:I can think of one small Chicago chain that has an amazingly high opinion of itself... my personal joke is that they are the Donald Trump of coffee...
Just sayin'
Ken Kesey once said the most true words that I have ever read, "You're either on the bus, or off the bus."
I think that it's really hard to badmouth another coffee company and still keep your virginity as one who doesn't put down others in the coffee community.
You're allowed to have your opinion,
Marek said:it's annoying ... it's petty and it is going to bite them on the ass...
I'd suggest that you might find a better way to address your annoyance (I mean, 'cause, hey, they may be right, right?) and let whatever their ass is due for get it without help.
My point with the entire thread was how do we avoid vitriol like this in a community where all we really have is each other for company? How do avoid suggesting that someone is wrong just because we don't agree with them?
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Hello Chris;
Making the observation that they have this problem isn't in fact bad mouthing their business but rather their attitude toward others in the business. Unfortunately a lot of customers can be swayed by such comments.
Trash talking others in the business openly and on a daily basis is indeed petty and I stand by my original comment that it will indeed some day in the not too distant future bite them on the ass.
Personally, I am too tall to stoop ... we don't trash talk anybody in the business. I love going into other owners shops and chatting, enjoying an espresso and wish them nothing but the best.
I find it interesting, if I walk into a shop and they know what I do for a living ... sometimes they are warm and friendly... but more often than not... it's like... why is he here... and they start hiding stuff... like they were state secrets...
One time it was quite funny, another shop owner happened to be in one of my shops... discretely writing down the menu prices... I went and got him an espresso... sat down and pointed out that our menu panels were on our Facebook page and that he might want to check there as it would be easier than scribbling them down on a napkin.
People will sometimes say to me 'your competitor' to which I always reply the same... 'we don't have any'... I don't refer to others in the trade as competitors...
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Marek said:Hello Chris;
Making the observation that they have this problem isn't in fact bad mouthing their business but rather their attitude toward others in the business...
Trash talking others in the business openly and on a daily basis is indeed petty
Personally, I am too tall to stoop ... we don't trash talk anybody in the business..
a. "I think that their attitude sucks and is detrimental to the rest of the entire community" and, b. "They seem to have a different approach to quality that appears to me to exclude the possibility of equal or better quality in other shop sin the are, or even the country. This doesn't garner them any close community ties within the industry, and has a tendency to be off-putting", are examples of;
a., Talking Trash, and b., Identifying and raising a concern or issue on a non-confrontational, communico-centric, problem solving way.
It's like shouting, "YOU SUCK!", instead of "That wasn't very friendly, that hurt!" when a small child throws their toys at you. Yeah, at the root of things, the first statement is pointing out an issue, and may be true, it really isn't going to be productive, and both the child and it's mother walk away from the situation thinking your an ass.
Truth as a defense for bad manners is only the refuge of the callous and insincere.
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Permalink Reply by James Liu on
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To come to the defense of the Small Chicago Coffee Chain, they've done a lot for the Chicago coffee culture, and a lot for coffee in the US. I don't think anyone who works at Small Chicago Coffee Chain cops the attitude,
"The attitude is ... well, thank goodness we are here to save you...because before we came along you had never had a good cup of coffee... but ... now that you're met us... we're going to fix all that."
They're allowed to think they're the best at what they do. They work hard at sourcing and roasting and serving the best coffee. And they deliver pretty consistently. If they aren't the best coffee in town/the US/the world, then they're at least in the conversation. Sure they're boastful about what they've been doing, but that sort of thing is allowed. And if anything, their attitude about coffee is "we bet we can make coffee even better, so let's try this and that and the other thing and see..."
Chicago's coffee community is nothing if not supportive. I'm the trainer at this new shop in town, and Small Chicago Coffee Chain has been very helpful, even though we told them that we won't be using them as our main roaster. One of my shop's owners asked me if there was some sort of honor code in the Chicago coffee scene, and I said no, not really. People really genuinely like each other that much. We're all friends here, we all go to each others events, we have a good time. And I pour better latte art than all of them (almost certainly not true, but I'm allowed to make that boast until someone beats me at my own throwdown, and in the first round no less.)
The first few days we were open, lots of coffee people came from shops tither and yon, but by far the most people came from Small Chicago Coffee Chain. I think they're great neighbors.
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Hello James;
This isn't a case of having a positive attitude about what you do... of course... like good wines... that is subject to various opinions... 'one mans junk... another mans treasure'...
Trash talking... isn't thinking you're the best... it's telling anybody who will listen that 'everything else is garbage compared to your product'... there is a very big difference between the two.
Without being overly specific ... we may not even be referring to the same company... I am sure Chicago has more than one... perhaps more than a dozen... indi shops/chains... obviously whoever you're referring to is helpful to the industry and your business... congrats on your new store and I wish you all the best.
Cheers...
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Permalink Reply by Lorenzo Perkins on
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You build community by being community.
Be friendly. Be genuine. Be respectful. Be helpful. Be kind. Be generous.
Be community oriented and soon enough, others who have a similar mind set will find you and help you build that.
Don't exclude people who "don't make great coffee" and help them get better, whatever that looks like. Praise those who "make great coffee" and learn from them. Don't be afraid to praise those who do right and call out those who don't. But always be gracious and respectful.
Ignore the trash talkers. Let them fester in there bad attitudes while you build something beautiful.
You will be amazed at how fast this works.
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