Tasting or Cupping your espresso....
To all those interested in fine tuning there spro shots. What do you look for or taste for when getting dialed in for your taste buds?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Fraser Jamieson on
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I'm going to get booed out of here for saying this; but, I want my espresso to taste "nice".
Yeah, that was bad, I know, but I'm looking for a strong smooth coffee taste which reminds me of coffee, nothing more. Maybe that's why I most often enjoy blends more so than SO.
Hey, I'm speaking in general terms. Don't shoot me Bryan! (after all, from previous discussions we know that you ONLY do SO. Wink Wink...I know you'll get the joke)
So, for me it's about balance and richness. Texture in the mouth. What I do know is that when I'm happy with it so are my key feedback customers.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on
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Fraser,
Thank you for your courage of being to first to respond to this "Hot" and seldom discussed in depth topic.
Joe
-- Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Fraser Jamieson said:I'm going to get booed out of here for saying this; but, I want my espresso to taste "nice".
Yeah, that was bad, I know, but I'm looking for a strong smooth coffee taste which reminds me of coffee, nothing more. Maybe that's why I most often enjoy blends more so than SO.
Hey, I'm speaking in general terms. Don't shoot me Bryan! (after all, from previous discussions we know that you ONLY do SO. Wink Wink...I know you'll get the joke)
So, for me it's about balance and richness. Texture in the mouth. What I do know is that when I'm happy with it so are my key feedback customers.
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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on
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Fraser Jamieson said:I'm going to get booed out of here for saying this; but, I want my espresso to taste "nice".
Yeah, that was bad, I know, but I'm looking for a strong smooth coffee taste which reminds me of coffee, nothing more. Maybe that's why I most often enjoy blends more so than SO.
Hey, I'm speaking in general terms. Don't shoot me Bryan! (after all, from previous discussions we know that you ONLY do SO. Wink Wink...I know you'll get the joke)
So, for me it's about balance and richness. Texture in the mouth. What I do know is that when I'm happy with it so are my key feedback customers.
BOOOOOOOOOOO!! haha
No, but to be serious: I assume we are talking about blends here, which I do drink a fair amount of. My answer is almost as frustrating as Frasier's actually... I look for balance. I want the acidity to be complimented by the body, I want the sweetness to be complimented by the bitterness, the finish to be sweet and lingering... blah blah blah.
So I guess you could say that I want my espresso to taste "good" lol.
For the blend we're rockin' as house right now I want vanilla up front, then cherry/raspberry (depending on how the Ethiopian is behaving that day) then fade into the spicy chocolate finish. Sometimes there is a note of rose, but I think that's generally when the shot runs a little fast or is a little gassy.
Today it tastes both "nice" and "good."
hahaha, alright I'll stop
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Ben Cram on
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Try weighing your dose and then weighing your shot. The ratio can be very helpful in dialing shots since measuring the volume of spro doesn't tell you much. (Crema volume and density will effect your liquid volume and change as the coffee off gasses so it doesn't tell you much.) By wieghing your liquid you are getting true repeatable numbers. So if a 16 gram dose yields 16 grams of espresso this is a 100%. If your 16 gram dose yields 20 grams of spro this would be 125%. There isn't a magic extraction ratio but it helps in consistency and in passing info on to staff. Different blends will taste good at different ratios. If I ask our head barista how the coffee is tasting it's not uncommon to get a comment like, "I lowered the extraction ratio to 120% and the sweet notes really came forward." Or something along those lines...
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Permalink Reply by Alex Stoffregen on
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I would see someone about getting a better house espresso...
Ricky Sutton said:My house espresso is a quite dynamic 5 bean blend from almost every major growing region. This means that my shots can one day taste like cherry pie filling, and the next taste like beef gravy. Unfortunately, i cannot rely on standard mechanisms, like "sweetness" to dial the espresso in. If it's tasting like tomato soup & black pepper, there probably won't be much sweetness. The same goes for any other standard dialing in concepts.
Honestly, i just balance dose, volume & extraction time until i get something that doesn't have any defects. If nothing tastes bad then i'm good.
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Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on
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i dunno, our sumatra pourovers have been smelling like mesquite BBQ on the break for the last two days. savory notes can be common for sure
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Permalink Reply by Jesus O. Gomez on
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Well I'm from Puerto Rico. Normally we use a SO blend, that consist in to types of roast and 3 types of beans, bourbon, tipica, and caturra. Real strong flavor, and the acidity is the most present of them all.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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Bryan Wray said:Fraser Jamieson said:I'm going to get booed out of here for saying this; but, I want my espresso to taste "nice".
Yeah, that was bad, I know, but I'm looking for a strong smooth coffee taste which reminds me of coffee, nothing more. Maybe that's why I most often enjoy blends more so than SO.
Hey, I'm speaking in general terms. Don't shoot me Bryan! (after all, from previous discussions we know that you ONLY do SO. Wink Wink...I know you'll get the joke)
So, for me it's about balance and richness. Texture in the mouth. What I do know is that when I'm happy with it so are my key feedback customers.
BOOOOOOOOOOO!! haha
No, but to be serious: I assume we are talking about blends here, which I do drink a fair amount of. My answer is almost as frustrating as Frasier's actually... I look for balance. I want the acidity to be complimented by the body, I want the sweetness to be complimented by the bitterness, the finish to be sweet and lingering... blah blah blah.
So I guess you could say that I want my espresso to taste "good" lol.
For the blend we're rockin' as house right now I want vanilla up front, then cherry/raspberry (depending on how the Ethiopian is behaving that day) then fade into the spicy chocolate finish. Sometimes there is a note of rose, but I think that's generally when the shot runs a little fast or is a little gassy.
Today it tastes both "nice" and "good."
hahaha, alright I'll stop
-bry
I'm in agreement on what these guys said. We use a blend - not sure of the recipe but I believe it has 3 or 4 components. The subtler flavors will obviously change as the blend changes, but I have a target balance in mind that I go for. Sorry I can't be more specific.
I do know that I tend to prefer my espresso a bit brighter than some, but without sacrificing body and balance.
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Permalink Reply by John P on
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We change our espresso on average once every week. Sometimes I have something I come back to, but for the most part, every blend is a new entity. With that in mind, I first adjust grind and dose until I know the flow is right, and then I start tasting. I adjust temp after the initial taste to find the sweet spot. Depending, I will updose or downdose to further adjust flow/taste. Good may be subjective, but bad is clearly definable. I am looking for good.
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Brian: There's no "I" in Fraser.
Frasier was a TV show. :P
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Permalink Reply by Simon Ouderkirk on
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I know that folks hate to hear this, especially newcomers to the whole tasting biz, but eventually you'll become tuned in to certain markers in your espresso that will help to identify what changes you'll need to make in order to get the taste you're looking for.
I know that when I'm trying to really dial in an espresso, it's important to experiment and taste every shot. That second bit is the most important thing I'll probably ever say, so I'll say it again: taste every shot. It's rewarding to do a few shots that are pretty far off, dosing below and above what you suspect the ideal dose will be (or what dose you're already using in the shop) and really inspect the taste closely. It probably won't be nice (though it may surprise you!) but it's important to get a feel for what an underdosed shot tastes like, and what an overdosed shot tastes like. This is sort of like personal calibration. I'd recommend messing about with grind sizes as well.
Once you have an idea how different factors (dose and grind size) can impact your cup, then you can try to really dial in your espresso, armed with these ideas as to what "too fine" or "updosed" looks like, tastes like, feels like, etc.
We use a SO blend from Colombia, and I generally know I'm getting close when the acidity begins to settle down into something fruity, and the finish swells from bitter notes to bittersweet bakers' chocolate.
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Ricky,
I'm glad you said that. It gives me something to shoot for...............
Joe
Ricky Sutton said:You aren't going to find a house espresso much better than Stumptown's Hairbender.
Alex Stoffregen said:I would see someone about getting a better house espresso...
Ricky Sutton said:My house espresso is a quite dynamic 5 bean blend from almost every major growing region. This means that my shots can one day taste like cherry pie filling, and the next taste like beef gravy. Unfortunately, i cannot rely on standard mechanisms, like "sweetness" to dial the espresso in. If it's tasting like tomato soup & black pepper, there probably won't be much sweetness. The same goes for any other standard dialing in concepts.
Honestly, i just balance dose, volume & extraction time until i get something that doesn't have any defects. If nothing tastes bad then i'm good.
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