Technically, Am I Making Good Coffee?
My first post was about accepting a job at a Coffeeshop which uses a fully automatic machine. Well, I ended up turning that one down and getting a different job with a completely manual machine- HOORAY!
The only thing is, she trained me very differently than what I'm used to. I'm working on a Nuova Simonelli 2-Group.
I was trained with Stumptown in Seattle and worked with it for about 2 years-- dose espresso, even it out with your finger, apply light pressure, tamp 30 lbs, run water through until boiler stops making a boiling sound (okay bear with me if you don't know what I'm talking about there-- it's with older machines and I don't know how to explain), pull shot for 23-28 seconds, latte art, BAM.
However, with this coffee, I was told to dose the espresso, don't worry about evening it out or drying out the puck after rinsing it, tamp it once with the tamper that's built into the grinder (which is smaller than the puck so it leaves some edges much taller than others) for 3 seconds at a light pressure, she didn't mention letting the boiling water run through, and the shot should be 15-20 seconds.
When I came for my interview and she made me a latte, I noticed that it tasted rather acidic. I would feel like a total snob bringing any of this up, even though when she instructed me to hold the latte foam back with a spoon until I was ready for it, I said, "Oh, well, uh.... I don't... need... to," and she basically said "OH, well okay! Just do it however you usually do, we have different ways." But I also don't really know about preparing coffee other than Stumptown.
Are shots capable of coming out okay at 15-20 seconds?
School me, folks! Please!:)
The only thing is, she trained me very differently than what I'm used to. I'm working on a Nuova Simonelli 2-Group.
I was trained with Stumptown in Seattle and worked with it for about 2 years-- dose espresso, even it out with your finger, apply light pressure, tamp 30 lbs, run water through until boiler stops making a boiling sound (okay bear with me if you don't know what I'm talking about there-- it's with older machines and I don't know how to explain), pull shot for 23-28 seconds, latte art, BAM.
However, with this coffee, I was told to dose the espresso, don't worry about evening it out or drying out the puck after rinsing it, tamp it once with the tamper that's built into the grinder (which is smaller than the puck so it leaves some edges much taller than others) for 3 seconds at a light pressure, she didn't mention letting the boiling water run through, and the shot should be 15-20 seconds.
When I came for my interview and she made me a latte, I noticed that it tasted rather acidic. I would feel like a total snob bringing any of this up, even though when she instructed me to hold the latte foam back with a spoon until I was ready for it, I said, "Oh, well, uh.... I don't... need... to," and she basically said "OH, well okay! Just do it however you usually do, we have different ways." But I also don't really know about preparing coffee other than Stumptown.
Are shots capable of coming out okay at 15-20 seconds?
School me, folks! Please!:)
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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Rarely but not entirely unheard of. What does said straight shot taste like? THAT is the answer.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Curtis on
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The way you were originally trained is correct. Like Mike said, taste rules, so go with that.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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This could be a tough situation for you, and will not be the last time it happens. You were trained very well, far better than most working in the industry. If your new employer plays her cards right, she can learn some things from you, but that will require the right attitude from both of you. This situation may not be easy for an owner with experience to accept.
I'd say that you should be confident in your ability and knowledge, yet humble and still willing to learn. There's a lot left for all of us to learn, but there's also plenty of bogus "knowledge" floating around there. Fortunately, like Mike said, the truth is often easy to prove.
Good luck, really.
Oh, and I've yet to have a good 15 second shot. Despite "how good the crema looks (big bubbly garbage)".
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Permalink Reply by Lauren on
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Damn. Alright.
Well, I did notice that the one I made for myself was better than the one she served me because my milk was uniform rather than cappuccino-like (probably because of the whole "hold the milk back" thing that she suggested). She's pretty stingy on wasting espresso/milk, so I don't have much room to experiment. I notice that when the espresso comes out it is bubbly and not mouse-tail like I was expecting. Bummer. I might just do it her way for a while, until I get comfortable with her, and then offer my suggestions.
Another upside though: She has rounded pitchers rather than those with spouts. I somehow managed to make a rosetta with her pitcher, and she said she'd love for me to teach her and once I said I needed a pitcher with a spout, she said she was open to getting me what I wanted. And to share any coffee combination that I like so she can add it to the menu. Hmmm
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Sounds like you may make this work.
Another thing you might consider doing is filling her in on the various other resources that are out there. If she's interested in art, point her to something here on bX or elsewhere that might also discuss proper extraction. Then it can be her discovery and she'll respect your tact. Tell her about bX...
Oh, and the "temperature surf" flush you described above is good practice and necessary on many machines, new and old.
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Agreeing with what Brady said about the HX flush - probably needs to be done on ALL heat exchange machines (even new models) except perhaps the NS aurelia. You said it is a NS - as far as I know the Aurelia is the only one you may not have to flush like you have been trained.
I really hope this can work for you both. What a gem she has found in you with the good training background - if only she can recognize it!
Best wishes!
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Permalink Reply by Jason Shipley on
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The Aurelia only need enough of a flush to ensure that there ore no old grounds left on the group screen.
Lauren, earn your new owners trust and show her the way! It sounds like she has been given quite a gif in you.
Stephen Curtis said:Agreeing with what Brady said about the HX flush - probably needs to be done on ALL heat exchange machines (even new models) except perhaps the NS aurelia. You said it is a NS - as far as I know the Aurelia is the only one you may not have to flush like you have been trained.
I really hope this can work for you both. What a gem she has found in you with the good training background - if only she can recognize it!
Best wishes!
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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on
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Are shots capable of coming out okay at 15-20 seconds? Of course.
But the ultimate arbiter of that is the taste of the coffee. Does it taste "good"? If so, then you're golden.
Bear in mind that you're working for a new master. Whatever you were taught at your previous job is pretty much irrelevant if your master says so. They pay your wages and it is your job to work to their standards. Considering her answer to your "Oh, well, uh, I don't, need, to" statement, it would seem that your new master either doesn't really have strong standards. This could be to your advantage.
I think you're on the right track with working there for awhile with their methods. Build rapport and trust with your new boss. Once your boss trusts you then you can start building and showing potential alternative methods of preparing coffee drinks. But come in right away with trying to show and do things your way and it will likely end up a problem for both of you.
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Permalink Reply by Dan Helland on
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The ideal extraction time for a shot will vary from one coffee to the next. Caffe D'Arte here in Seattle recommends as much as a 30 second pull for their beans, while I have tasted beans that give a better extraction in the teens. Just do some experimenting and find the sweet spot for the beans that you're using, and don't get hung up on the numbers - they are merely guidelines.
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Permalink Reply by Katie Cline on
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I have a question in relevance to this subject. Should you go by what your roaster says in terms of shot times and really tastes right, or what your machine pulls, when the machine is pulling shots relevant to the demand and flow of the business? ...And, no customer is complaining about them?
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For the most part, your roaster knows how to get the best results from their own coffee. You're going to have to use your own judgment regardless. A lot of the time, you'll be talking to a salesman or other employee of the roaster, who may or may not be as knowledgeable as the person who actually roasted the beans, and may not know the variables and unique personality of your particular machine. Whatever technique gets you the least bitterness and the highest complexity of flavor out of whatever beans you are using, that's what you should do.
And customers rarely complain. A few might, but far more will just quietly go somewhere else.
Katie Cline said:I have a question in relevance to this subject. Should you go by what your roaster says in terms of shot times and really tastes right, or what your machine pulls, when the machine is pulling shots relevant to the demand and flow of the business? ...And, no customer is complaining about them?
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