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Permalink Reply by Jason Haeger on December 28, 2009 at 10:59am

I don't think it quite works that way.

The smallest place may gross more than the largest place with the grab-n-go market that exists in this industry.

The original Blue Bottle location may be a good example of this, with a tiny little counter regularly seeing lines that go around the corner of the block.

At the same time, I've seen some huge places do so poorly that they've had to resort to reaching out to other markets in an attempt to stay afloat. (i.e. - they resort to turning into a bar at night, which is an entirely different business model)

I'm sure that there is a way to find an average, but I am equally sure that this average would mean absolutely nothing.

Just my $.02.

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Permalink Reply by Lorenzo Perkins on December 28, 2009 at 11:06am

Of course this is just ONE factor in a very complex equation, but it could be very helpful in determining the size needed for a coffee shop based on future sales expectations.

The type of environment one would want in the cafe is also a factor. Blue Bottle didn't really have a "cafe space", but that wasn't something they were interested in starting out with. If one is opening, or running, a shop and wishes to create an intentional space, how big is too big and how small is too small based on expected, projected, or current business? I think that the yearly revenue per square foot is a good starting point for that.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Haeger on December 28, 2009 at 11:13am

I understand.

Culture plays a big part in that as well, and should certainly be part of the formula.

Lorenzo Perkins said:

Of course this is just ONE factor in a very complex equation, but it could be very helpful in determining the size needed for a coffee shop based on future sales expectations.

The type of environment one would want in the cafe is also a factor. Blue Bottle didn't really have a "cafe space", but that wasn't something they were interested in starting out with. If one is opening, or running, a shop and wishes to create an intentional space, how big is too big and how small is too small based on expected, projected, or current business? I think that the yearly revenue per square foot is a good starting point for that.

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Permalink Reply by Marek on December 28, 2009 at 8:39pm

One thousand square feet 35x25 the common area allowances/exits/bathrooms is about right. Layout is just math... counter depths... spaces between counters for staff to move freely and equipment needed... Back counter 32" +/-... space between front/back counters 4'+... front counter depth 36"... so you're 9' deep by add up all your equipment/fridges/freezers/ice machine/sinks, etc... and I think you will find +/- 25' in lenght. So of your 875 'useable' square feet an area of about 25'x10' will be devoted to service (250 feet). Allowing for entry/exit/flow... access to condiment stands/garbage... view... counter .... you should be able to get 7 24" square tables... with two chairs each and 2-3 30" high top tables with four chairs each... so seating for 22-28 interior plus another min 15 on your patio five tables with three chairs each.

I am trying to back math into your question...

So... if a small coffee is $1.75 and a large is $2.25 and your average ticket is ... $3.50... in order to do $1,000 a square foot... you need $2,740 a day in sales... for a one thousand foot store. assuming you are open seven days a week... or 782 orders a day... that is literally an order a minute... every minute for the entire day... none stop ... without a break.

That is ONE BUSY SHOP... and I don't think it's the norm... there are exceptions and exceptional shops but certainly not the norm...

I think for an average you might want to think about $350-500 PSF...

Apple sells one iMac for $2,000.... that's 1,200 ... 12 oz cups of coffee... that's 115 gallons of coffee...

It takes a decent brewer (fast) about three minutes to brew a gallon... if even if you have a double brewer ... it would still take you... three hours ... non stop... just to brew the coffee... never mind sell and serve it...

It takes Apple... about ten minutes to sell an iMAC...

Starbucks, has 8,800 stores and had revenue of $9.77 billion... simple math would say $1,110,000 per store. But I would hazzard a guess that about 25% of their revenue comes from sources other than store sales, so a more accurate figure might be $832,000 gross sales per store (or $2,300 a day). Personally I have a problem with thier numbers... for example... they have 142,000 employees... and 8,800 stores... "Really"... each store has 16 people... NOT !!!... they have too many people at the top counting it and not enough people at the bottom earning it... But what they really have is 1,000 stores doing $5,000 a day (uber- locations) with the rest doing just under $2,000 a day.

That fits right in with the $500 PSF based on an average store size of about 1,400 square feet.

Wow... dat was some answer... :)... maybe I should switch to decafe...

Marek

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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on December 28, 2009 at 10:41pm

No no... stay on the caf, I think you are on your way to some medical breakthroughs if you apply yourself! lol :0)

-bry

Marek said:

One thousand square feet 35x25 the common area allowances/exits/bathrooms is about right. Layout is just math... counter depths... spaces between counters for staff to move freely and equipment needed... Back counter 32" +/-... space between front/back counters 4'+... front counter depth 36"... so you're 9' deep by add up all your equipment/fridges/freezers/ice machine/sinks, etc... and I think you will find +/- 25' in lenght. So of your 875 'useable' square feet an area of about 25'x10' will be devoted to service (250 feet). Allowing for entry/exit/flow... access to condiment stands/garbage... view... counter .... you should be able to get 7 24" square tables... with two chairs each and 2-3 30" high top tables with four chairs each... so seating for 22-28 interior plus another min 15 on your patio five tables with three chairs each.

I am trying to back math into your question...

So... if a small coffee is $1.75 and a large is $2.25 and your average ticket is ... $3.50... in order to do $1,000 a square foot... you need $2,740 a day in sales... for a one thousand foot store. assuming you are open seven days a week... or 782 orders a day... that is literally an order a minute... every minute for the entire day... none stop ... without a break.

That is ONE BUSY SHOP... and I don't think it's the norm... there are exceptions and exceptional shops but certainly not the norm...

I think for an average you might want to think about $350-500 PSF...

Apple sells one iMac for $2,000.... that's 1,200 ... 12 oz cups of coffee... that's 115 gallons of coffee...

It takes a decent brewer (fast) about three minutes to brew a gallon... if even if you have a double brewer ... it would still take you... three hours ... non stop... just to brew the coffee... never mind sell and serve it...

It takes Apple... about ten minutes to sell an iMAC...

Starbucks, has 8,800 stores and had revenue of $9.77 billion... simple math would say $1,110,000 per store. But I would hazzard a guess that about 25% of their revenue comes from sources other than store sales, so a more accurate figure might be $832,000 gross sales per store (or $2,300 a day). Personally I have a problem with thier numbers... for example... they have 142,000 employees... and 8,800 stores... "Really"... each store has 16 people... NOT !!!... they have too many people at the top counting it and not enough people at the bottom earning it... But what they really have is 1,000 stores doing $5,000 a day (uber- locations) with the rest doing just under $2,000 a day.

That fits right in with the $500 PSF based on an average store size of about 1,400 square feet.

Wow... dat was some answer... :)... maybe I should switch to decafe...

Marek

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