Using the hot water dispenser from a single boiler machine to make tea....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Fell on
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I'm guessing you are referring to the americano wand on your espresso machine?? First it depends on what type of tea you are wanting to brew. Black teas and herbal teas brew best with water at or just below boiling temp whereas green and white teas over-steep with water that hot and quickly become very bitter. As a general rule, Black & Herbal teas brew at 198-200 degree water 4 to 5 minutes or longer if the customer prefers. Green & White teas brew at 180 deree water 3 minutes max. -
My Answer: Black teas & Herbal teas its fine to use hot water from a single boiler machine. Green teas & white teas no.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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Not optimal, but will work in a pinch.
It'll come out right at the boil, so too hot for black teas and way too hot for green or white. You should also taste the water that comes out both hot and cooled, cause boiler water can sometimes be pretty funky. It'll also cause your elements to cycle more often and may cause your temps to be a little less stable... depending on your machine.
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Permalink Reply by Matt Swenson on
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Though, not scientific, you can put a couple ice cubes in the cup before brewing green and white teas. They will typically melt extremely fast and you will want to test the temperature a couple times for consistency before you start doing on a regular basis (~170F). That is a quick and easy "fix" if your tea volume is extremely light. If you start doing some volume on teas, i would invest in a small boiler with an electronic temp control. ~$150.
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Permalink Reply by Sandy Hon on
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Bad. taste it compared to hot water from the coffee brewer or another method. taste it side by side. not very good and it's usually much hotter.
i would not recommend it. (i used to do it all the time till i got called out by an industry expert that i trust and admire- Barry Jarret)
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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on
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An annoying answer... it depends.
First things first, regardless of temperature the water needs to taste good. Often water sits too long in a machine's boiler and acquires an undesirable stale, metallic taste. However, if the water out of your machine tastes fine and you have an effective way of measuring and controlling the water temperature out of the tap then it is fine.
For example, we have a single boiler (HX) machine at my cafe. The temperature of the water at the spout is adjustable by turning a dial inside of the machine. We have our temperature set to 203 degrees. We use this water for press pots and tea. This means we push a lot of water through our machine keeping the water in the boiler fresh. The boiler is constantly flushing and refilling. We have measured the temperature stability at the groups and the hot water spout and found it to be fine (read as comparable to normal HX fluctuations). We know when to pull shots, and when not to, giving the machine 30 seconds or so to heat back up. It's not optimal, but HX machines aren't optimal to begin with. We adjust the temperature up and down as needed using the steam wands or cooler water, but 203 is pretty solid in the middle.
Brady, unless you are talking Darjeelings there is no such thing as water too hot for black tea, it's supposed to be at boil. Also, water from a machine's hot water tap is typically not at boil, otherwise it would be steam, or at least spitting and spraying. Typically a machine's hot water spout dispenses water at the 190-200 range.
-bry
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Curious, Bry- what do you guys do to the boiler first thing in the morning? do you empty it out to start out with fresh water? (i hope i am not sounding confrontational- becuase that is certainly not my intent!)
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Bry, the water out of the tap on our Astoria Argenta spits and sputters like crazy. It is definitely right at the boiling point.
Regarding my original temp observation - I am a tea newbie, so will certainly be deferring to others on that. My handy tea cheat-sheets all recommend 195 degrees for most black teas, so that's how we do it at the house. YMMV.
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Sandy Hon said:Curious, Bry- what do you guys do to the boiler first thing in the morning? do you empty it out to start out with fresh water? (i hope i am not sounding confrontational- becuase that is certainly not my intent!)
No we don't. It would certainly be optimal if we did, but it would just take too long to drain the boiler and then have it fill back up completely. We run 4 cycles (so that's 30ozX4=120oz) through to get a good mixture of new fresh water in the boiler, but it's off to the races after that.
I've often wondered why the water that sits in a boiler in a brewer all day is considered different than the water that sits in a boiler in a machine. I'm sure there truly is a good answer to this, it's just that I've never heard it. Every answer I have heard has to do with the amount of water that travels through the brewer being of high volume and the amount traveling through the espresso machine being of low volume. What if the espresso machine were high volume? Does this change anything?
YMMV, but in my experience with our brewer we have HUGE temperature variations when we use the hot water tap on the brewer at too high a volume. If you notice that the flow on the brewer's tap suddenly increases go ahead and stick your thermometer under the spout. We were using a Bunn CWTS Twin APS and the water from the tap would get so cold I could put my hand under it without feeling even remotely burned if we had to do two or three back to back press pots (or if we were brewing and tried to use the hot water tap). Maybe our unit was just funny (we no longer have this unit), but I'd experienced this increase in water flow rate on machines before, I had just never measured the temperature when it happened.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Barry Jarrett on
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Bryan Wray said: I've often wondered why the water that sits in a boiler in a brewer all day is considered different than the water that sits in a boiler in a machine. I'm sure there truly is a good answer to this, it's just that I've never heard it. Every answer I have heard has to do with the amount of water that travels through the brewer being of high volume and the amount traveling through the espresso machine being of low volume. What if the espresso machine were high volume? Does this change anything?
The main difference between a boiler and a hot water tank is, well, one is a boiler and one isn't. A boiler changes a portion of its water charge into water vapor (steam). In that process, any impurities in the water get left behind in the liquid portion, increasing the concentration of those impurities in the boiler water. When steam is drawn off through the steam wand, and more water is converted to steam, the concentration of impurities in the water increases. When the boiler refill activates, new water (with the same initial level of impurities) is introduced. The new water does dilute the concentration of impurities somewhat, but it will always remain higher than the initial concentration (even with repeated flushing through the hot water wand) because the boiler's job is to produce steam, not just hot water.
The $10,000 question is: does it matter?
The complex answer: it depends.
The simple answer: if the water coming out of the hot water wand tastes the same as or no worse than the water going into the boiler, then it doesn't matter.
Usually it tastes skanky. :(
Another issue has to do with the materials used in the construction of boilers versus brewers, and mineral leeching of the standing water.
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Barry Jarrett said:
Bryan Wray said: I've often wondered why the water that sits in a boiler in a brewer all day is considered different than the water that sits in a boiler in a machine. I'm sure there truly is a good answer to this, it's just that I've never heard it. Every answer I have heard has to do with the amount of water that travels through the brewer being of high volume and the amount traveling through the espresso machine being of low volume. What if the espresso machine were high volume? Does this change anything?
The main difference between a boiler and a hot water tank is, well, one is a boiler and one isn't. A boiler changes a portion of its water charge into water vapor (steam). In that process, any impurities in the water get left behind in the liquid portion, increasing the concentration of those impurities in the boiler water. When steam is drawn off through the steam wand, and more water is converted to steam, the concentration of impurities in the water increases. When the boiler refill activates, new water (with the same initial level of impurities) is introduced. The new water does dilute the concentration of impurities somewhat, but it will always remain higher than the initial concentration (even with repeated flushing through the hot water wand) because the boiler's job is to produce steam, not just hot water.
The $10,000 question is: does it matter?
The complex answer: it depends.
The simple answer: if the water coming out of the hot water wand tastes the same as or no worse than the water going into the boiler, then it doesn't matter.
Usually it tastes skanky. :(
Another issue has to do with the materials used in the construction of boilers versus brewers, and mineral leeching of the standing water.
Thank you sir, beautiful answer.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Fraser Jamieson on
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I'm only familiar with a few different machines, but on none of the ones I've worked with does the water in the boiler have anything to do with the water going through the group heads or coming out of the infusion tap. Yes, I know some machines work that way, I'm just saying that I've never used one.
On many machines, the water that we drink was cold water only moments before it made it's way through the heat exchangers which run up through the boiler(s) and up to the group heads or dispersion manifold.
The steam is from the boiler, and if the water in the boiler is old, it will certainly taste bad. Really bad.
So, another "it depends" is the heat transfer method employed within.
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