Thoughts on inverter systems over gas generator
In spec'ing out my truck, I have decided to go with a company in Texas called kitchensonwheels. They seem to do great work and have been easy to work with. They are recommending that I go with an inverter over a generator and they say it will handle all of my power needs, even though I estimated all of my equipment needing about 13000 watts. Of course, everything won't be operating at all times though. The system they're talking about operates at 8500 watts and they say it can handle peaks up to 14000. It uses 3 Lifeline batteries that they say will last me 4-6 hours before needing to be charged by running my truck engine. Since I'm mobile and likely will never sit over 3 hours in one spot without shore power, that would be acceptable to me.
I like the advantages of the inverter, but don't know what the disadvantages are or how reliable they are. So any input or thoughts would be appreciated... My main concern, obviously, is to have a reliable system that will handle my power needs at all times. They assure me that it will, but don't want to rely solely on the promise of the salesman!
Anyone have experience with them?
I like the advantages of the inverter, but don't know what the disadvantages are or how reliable they are. So any input or thoughts would be appreciated... My main concern, obviously, is to have a reliable system that will handle my power needs at all times. They assure me that it will, but don't want to rely solely on the promise of the salesman!
Anyone have experience with them?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mitch Buckner - Bella Caffe on
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This has been something I've seen off & on over the last few years but I havent studied hard on it. Its something I would love to use. I dont do the few hours here & there but setup a trailer at festivals & events & usually I have power available. Altough many times power is really expensive (I might pay 250.00 for 50amp 220V for 2 days at some places) I would love to have something like this setup that I might be able to supplement maybe a 20amp 110V plug. Plus occassionaly I have shows that I have to use a generator for a 1 day event which sucks. Would much rather have the battery. As much as I pay for electricity at some of the shows I do, I would be able to pay for a bettery inverter setup in no time. I hope we get some replies from people out there using them.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Funk on
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Hi Patrick,
We have built a lot of vehicles with inverters and they do work well, Your consumption seems excessive for coffee/espresso. You can cut the power requirement significantly be using a propane water heater and using suplimental gas heat on the espresso machine. I can modify an espresso machine to work on any combination of 220volt power, gas power and or 120volt power. Gas is great but can lag in heat up and busy times. I'll often stagger the operating pressure of an electric presso-stat to come on at a lower pressure than the gas presso-stat. This way the machine will only pull from the batteries in times of heavy use.
-Mike -
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Mitch,
You can easily purchase a combination charger inverter and a couple of golf cart batteries to make a back up 120volt 20 amp system, this can cost less than $1000.00 and charge off of a 120v. wall outlet.
-Mike
Mitch Buckner - Bella Caffe said:This has been something I've seen off & on over the last few years but I havent studied hard on it. Its something I would love to use. I dont do the few hours here & there but setup a trailer at festivals & events & usually I have power available. Altough many times power is really expensive (I might pay 250.00 for 50amp 220V for 2 days at some places) I would love to have something like this setup that I might be able to supplement maybe a 20amp 110V plug. Plus occassionaly I have shows that I have to use a generator for a 1 day event which sucks. Would much rather have the battery. As much as I pay for electricity at some of the shows I do, I would be able to pay for a bettery inverter setup in no time. I hope we get some replies from people out there using them. -
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Permalink Reply by Patrick A. Payne on
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good stuff Mike! Yeah, I am probably being excessive a bit, but I do have a granita machine, tea brewer, pour over brewer, espresso grinder, bean grinder, panini press, frig, ice maker, lights, etc. It adds up quick! I should have also mentioned one of the down sides is that the batteries do not charge while you are plugged in to shore power...
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Would this allow me to to pull about 50amp 220V out of the inverter system while plugging the charger into the 120V plug keeping it slightly charged while in use giving me up to 12 hours of use?
Mike Funk said:Mitch,
You can easily purchase a combination charger inverter and a couple of golf cart batteries to make a back up 120volt 20 amp system, this can cost less than $1000.00 and charge off of a 120v. wall outlet.
-Mike
Mitch Buckner - Bella Caffe said:This has been something I've seen off & on over the last few years but I havent studied hard on it. Its something I would love to use. I dont do the few hours here & there but setup a trailer at festivals & events & usually I have power available. Altough many times power is really expensive (I might pay 250.00 for 50amp 220V for 2 days at some places) I would love to have something like this setup that I might be able to supplement maybe a 20amp 110V plug. Plus occassionaly I have shows that I have to use a generator for a 1 day event which sucks. Would much rather have the battery. As much as I pay for electricity at some of the shows I do, I would be able to pay for a bettery inverter setup in no time. I hope we get some replies from people out there using them. -
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And of course staying plugged in overnight with little pull on the system (just mainly keeping the espresso machine & coffee machine hot) Really right now I probably pull less than 40 amps most of the time. Of course if everything in the trailer was turned on at the same time it would be pulling more but depending on the weather & temperature sometimes I sell very few hot drinks & tons of cold drinks or vice versa. Of course during the warm weather I still have to keep the coffee maker & espresso machine hot, they just might not get used as often. During the cold weather I usually dont keep the frozen drink machines on & just blend to order.
Mitch Buckner - Bella Caffe said:Would this allow me to to pull about 50amp 220V out of the inverter system while plugging the charger into the 120V plug keeping it slightly charged while in use giving me up to 12 hours of use?
Mike Funk said:Mitch,
You can easily purchase a combination charger inverter and a couple of golf cart batteries to make a back up 120volt 20 amp system, this can cost less than $1000.00 and charge off of a 120v. wall outlet.
-Mike
Mitch Buckner - Bella Caffe said:This has been something I've seen off & on over the last few years but I havent studied hard on it. Its something I would love to use. I dont do the few hours here & there but setup a trailer at festivals & events & usually I have power available. Altough many times power is really expensive (I might pay 250.00 for 50amp 220V for 2 days at some places) I would love to have something like this setup that I might be able to supplement maybe a 20amp 110V plug. Plus occassionaly I have shows that I have to use a generator for a 1 day event which sucks. Would much rather have the battery. As much as I pay for electricity at some of the shows I do, I would be able to pay for a bettery inverter setup in no time. I hope we get some replies from people out there using them. -
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No Mitch, that price would be for a 120volt system, you could do a 220volt system with a seperate 120v. charger, but this would be a lot more and with that kind of amp draw, it would run out before to long, better to design a system with enough batteries to go a full day. ...most economical soloution would be to convert as much stuff to propane as possible
Mitch Buckner - Bella Caffe said:Would this allow me to to pull about 50amp 220V out of the inverter system while plugging the charger into the 120V plug keeping it slightly charged while in use giving me up to 12 hours of use?
Mike Funk said:Mitch,
You can easily purchase a combination charger inverter and a couple of golf cart batteries to make a back up 120volt 20 amp system, this can cost less than $1000.00 and charge off of a 120v. wall outlet.
-Mike
Mitch Buckner - Bella Caffe said:This has been something I've seen off & on over the last few years but I havent studied hard on it. Its something I would love to use. I dont do the few hours here & there but setup a trailer at festivals & events & usually I have power available. Altough many times power is really expensive (I might pay 250.00 for 50amp 220V for 2 days at some places) I would love to have something like this setup that I might be able to supplement maybe a 20amp 110V plug. Plus occassionaly I have shows that I have to use a generator for a 1 day event which sucks. Would much rather have the battery. As much as I pay for electricity at some of the shows I do, I would be able to pay for a bettery inverter setup in no time. I hope we get some replies from people out there using them. -
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There are charger systems that will charge when you are plugged in to "shore power" That is a lot of stuff, one small way to save 1500 to 1800 watts would be to use a combination coffee/tea brewer.
Patrick A. Payne said:good stuff Mike! Yeah, I am probably being excessive a bit, but I do have a granita machine, tea brewer, pour over brewer, espresso grinder, bean grinder, panini press, frig, ice maker, lights, etc. It adds up quick! I should have also mentioned one of the down sides is that the batteries do not charge while you are plugged in to shore power... -
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I guess I dont technically use anything 220v. Thats just the way the trailer is wired currently to go into a 100AMP box. But everything in the trailer is 110/120V. Coffee maker & espresso machine both in the 1500W range, frozen drink machine probably about the same. 2 commercial blenders, neon lights, a fan, a computer, Espresso & coffee grinders. Im wired with the 220V right now because I do alot of horse shows that have RV plugs & its easy. In the future I might add an AC unit but since power has always been an issue, having working equipment was more important than comfort so I've lived without for 3 years now. Doesnt bother me too much since Im not cooking in the trailer. Just keep the windows open when I can & the screen door & a fan keeping air moving & Im fine.
Mike Funk said:No Mitch, that price would be for a 120volt system, you could do a 220volt system with a seperate 120v. charger, but this would be a lot more and with that kind of amp draw, it would run out before to long, better to design a system with enough batteries to go a full day. ...most economical soloution would be to convert as much stuff to propane as possible -
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Permalink Reply by Moto-Espresso Coffee Carts on
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I have successfully used a Honda 2000ei watt portable generator for 2 1/2 years on my mobile coffee cart. I can't imagine doing it any other way. The gen set still runs strong and operates continuously 5-6 hours a day .
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Permalink Reply by Shadow on
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I say stick with a generator... I have no experience with an inverter system, but can't imagine one being able to keep up like a good generator. AND generators don't need to rest for recharging. Simply can't imagine battery power being nearly as reliable, would be nice if it did work as good. I could surely be wrong.
Here is what we have Pat... a 2 group NS Aurelia that has a 4500 watt element that kicks on quite often, being a HX. Also have a BUNN VPR drip brewer on standby, a NS MDX grinder for spro, a NS Grinta for decaf, a BUNN LPG for drip grinding, a Hoshizaki icemaker, a 22 cu ft refrigerator/freezer, a Carrier AC/heat unit, a 2.5 gallon hot water heater, fluorescent lighting and 3 ShurFlo pumps for various water systems. Granted everything isn't running at the same time, but it takes quite a bit of energy to keep it all going. We have an onboard 13KW Generac Guardian propane fired generator taking care of this while in mobile operation. We have a 100# propane cylinder and covered that with a heating jacket to further improve efficiency. The generator usually runs a little less than half load and uses between 1-1.5GPH of propane on average. But when most of those things are running constantly it uses a bit more and runs harder. I can't say enough about the quiet and consistent output of that Guardian though.
We recently had electricity installed at our daily AM spot as propane was killing us. We sublease a part of a parking lot and have a 220v connection to plug into. The setup cost us $200 (permit, box, having it wired) then I bought a 75 ft cordset of 6-4 heavy duty outside rated cord and then bought the 50 amp 4 prong male/female ends and installed them myself. The cordset with connectors was close to $300. So that is around $500 for that setup, but considering we have spent well over $1,000 in propane in just 3 months it's money well spent. Right now in our area a propane fillup is about $70 and will last us 17-18 hrs., so that would be 2 full days onsite. With electricity (based on our first bill thusfar) we can stay onsite 10 hrs. daily for 6 days weekly for 1 month for $70 or less. A 220v connection is dirt cheap compared to any fuel source... and it saves wear and tear on our generator. Of course we use it when visiting other places to vend, but I look forward to electricity daily.
Sorry to move off topic, but wanted to fill you in on our electrical situation. Things are going great for our van in our area. 3-4 months ago we were making phone calls left and right and visiting door to door looking for a spot, just trying to lock onto something good. Now WE have people calling us and stopping by asking for us to visit their morning spots and do their events. 4 months into this and my wife says we are around the 75% point of breaking even. Not bad by any standard if u ask me... Later! -
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So what kind of system would be needed to run a 110V 1800W espresso machine, 1500W Coffee Maker, 1200W Blender (only pulling power of course when drinks are being blended) and say a selection of smaller items (lights, radio). Making sure it runs a full say 12 hour day & what would be needed to recharge it?
I've got a gig booked this saturday setting up at The Steeplechase Race in Aiken. Its only about an 8 hour event but Im having to rent a generator for the weekend to do it. Sure wish I had this inverter system setup for it. I sometimes pay up to 250.00 a weekend for electricity at some festivals I work. I would love to use an inverter system (especially since most festivals dont allow generators) & maybe just pay for 1 110V 20A line (which is much cheaper than renting 2 or 3 or renting a 50A line). I could pay for an inverter system probably after 2 or 3 festivals by saving on renting electricity from the festival. Plus it would help for those small festivals I do that have shoddy power or not quite enough.
Mike Funk said:There are charger systems that will charge when you are plugged in to "shore power" That is a lot of stuff, one small way to save 1500 to 1800 watts would be to use a combination coffee/tea brewer.
Patrick A. Payne said:good stuff Mike! Yeah, I am probably being excessive a bit, but I do have a granita machine, tea brewer, pour over brewer, espresso grinder, bean grinder, panini press, frig, ice maker, lights, etc. It adds up quick! I should have also mentioned one of the down sides is that the batteries do not charge while you are plugged in to shore power... -
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