Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rich Abker on January 20, 2009 at 11:46pm

Hey Eli,

Are you talking about 16 oz espresso beverages during training, or are you talking 16 oz drinks versus 12 oz or 24 oz go cups, served to the customers? Can you be just a little more specific. Are you concerned about the size being too large for normal servings, or are you concerned about the 16 oz being too large to use for training purposes?

Permalink Reply by Eli Kalen on January 22, 2009 at 11:08am

In the customer setting what do you think about not serving drinks in 16oz cups. I think that anything above a 12oz cup 16-24oz takes away from the coffee, "Would you like some coffee with your milk" I want to educate the public about what a really good coffee tastes like.
I hope that cleared it up a bit.
I tend to blabber on.
Eli

Permalink Reply by Rich Abker on February 1, 2009 at 2:30pm

We can always educate the espresso bar owners and managers, but if we have the consumers demanding larger sizes that may mean that perhaps their pallets have not acclimated to the beautiful bold nature of good espresso. When an espresso bar reaches an historical grocery store coffee consumer, keep in mind, frequently, they are used to drinking "smooth" coffees 8-). In other words they are used to a cup that we think is flavorless. So, In order to keep that potential espresso consumer in the loop, the owners of coffee businesses have adjusted by using more milk. While few hardcore baristai would get caught with a cup size bigger than a 4oz, 6oz, or 8oz, we cant force a newbie to the Specialty Coffee Industry to automatically
have a pallet adjustment. However, since most bars are are continuing to out sell the 20 & 24 ounce go cups with the 12 & 8oz, the newbies generally come around to enjoy the bolder more complex pallett profile.

Permalink Reply by Deferio on February 4, 2009 at 5:35am

Hi Eli,
Trouble is...customers want things to be simple. Baristas who are passionate tend to want to over describe things to the customer. The customer then just gets frustrated and will not venture past their comfort zone.
Approach them with confidence and short concise words that seem to say"you will love this" and they will usually try it.
In my opinion 16 ounce drinks are not going to give the customer an accurate taste of your fine crafted product. (unless you are talking about plain brewed coffee I am assuming this is also about lattes)
The sheer volumes of extra "stuff" in it will bring your baby closer and closer in taste(in the customers eyes) to the non-quality shop down the street. Let THEM make the 12 ounce or 8 ounce drinks and see if the average customer could stand it without running for the condiment bar. Your confidence is shown in that you do not need large volumes of milk to mask flavor.
Key word is CONFIDENCE!
Show your product off with the drink size that makes it clear to see that your coffee is far better.
The food world has a saying..."customers don't know what they like...but they like what they know"
BTW if you don't have it on the menu you will most likely not get requests for it. From my experience simply saying..."Our largest size is a 12 ounce I think you'll really enjoy it"....soothes the savage beast.

Permalink Reply by N. Freeman on May 11, 2009 at 9:26am

I am not a trainer, buy have been trained. With that in mind, I have seen every size cup used imaginable, but the average observed is always 8 oz or 12 oz. You never know what size shots are used - that leaves only my taste to determine if there will be a return to the store. Few stores want to use glass or china cups and I don’t like paper.

Dimmi cups not included, I use only two size cups, a 200 ml (6.75 oz) for cappuccino and 300 ml (10.1 oz) cup for latte. Only one size shot is used for either cup size - that being 14-14.5 gram of coffee with a light tamp and 2 oz of finished coffee in the cup. For cappuccino, If they like the 200 ml cup strong, I use only 1 to 1.5 oz of steamed milk. If they want it normal, I use 2 to 3 oz of milk and foam on top. All the 300 ml latte cups are just filled up with milk and foam over the double shot (2 oz coffee). Never had a complaint., but sometimes it is noticed they add a little extra sugar to calm it down. Just my way!

Permalink Reply by Jesse -D-> on May 11, 2009 at 9:48am

I like your style.

N. Freeman said:

I am not a trainer, buy have been trained. With that in mind, I have seen every size cup used imaginable, but the average observed is always 8 oz or 12 oz. You never know what size shots are used - that leaves only my taste to determine if there will be a return to the store. Few stores want to use glass or china cups and I don’t like paper.

Dimmi cups not included, I use only two size cups, a 200 ml (6.75 oz) for cappuccino and 300 ml (10.1 oz) cup for latte. Only one size shot is used for either cup size - that being 14-14.5 gram of coffee with a light tamp and 2 oz of finished coffee in the cup. For cappuccino, If they like the 200 ml cup strong, I use only 1 to 1.5 oz of steamed milk. If they want it normal, I use 2 to 3 oz of milk and foam on top. All the 300 ml latte cups are just filled up with milk and foam over the double shot (2 oz coffee). Never had a complaint., but sometimes it is noticed they add a little extra sugar to calm it down. Just my way!

Permalink Reply by Joseph Plaugher on December 15, 2009 at 8:20am

This is a really good discussion. I just took over management of a cafe that sells lattes mocha and cappuccinos all in 12, 16, and 20 cups. I hate the big sizes but this is how it has been for years at this cafe. I plan to switch to 6 oz caps and 8 and 10 oz latte and mochas, but I don't know how our customer base will respond. It sounds like some of you are still trying to gain acceptance of the smaller sizes from your customers, maybe some of you have succeeded. I would love to hear about any more successful (or even partly successful) methods or attempts at winning the customer's taste buds over to this superior way of making espresso...

Permalink Reply by olivier dutil on September 12, 2010 at 1:36pm

well it all depend for us at our coffee shop well, we use 5 size of cup
we use a espresso cup
and for the cap we use a 6 oz and 12 oz
and for latte we use a 8 oz and a 16 oz
but i make sure that my large drink tast the same then the small size
what so i want to say is for my regular cappucino i use a double shot and for my large i use 2 double shot.
So we dont change the integrity of the drink and we dont refuse the extra sell...

Permalink Reply by Alexandra LittleJohn on October 17, 2010 at 2:15am

I am a barista trainer, and the bottom line is that not all shops are as refined as the folks here on this discussion, and unfortunately Starbucks has ruined the sizing for us all - - so according to the general public, 16 oz is the staple.

I am a fan of using ratio. Add more espresso, use 3 or 4 shots to a 16 oz beverage rather than 2, this will not make the drink perfect, but it will bring it more up to par with how a latte should taste and be in line with what the coffee to milk ratio is.


I personally agree with everyone below, and if I happen to be blessed with the opportunity to have my own shop some day, the biggest size I sell will be 16 oz, but on the espresso bar 12...


Thanks to all, this has been a wonderful and educating discussion.


- Ms. LittleJohn