Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Brady on February 2, 2011 at 2:50pm

James, that 3-5 grains recommendation sounds too high. Where did you see that?

 

In the pre-installation checklist for the Aurelia, Nuova Simonelli recommends the following:

"Water hardness cannot exceed 3gpg or 50 ppm. If water hardness exceeds 3gpg a water softener must
be installed."

 

This is in line with recommendations by several other manufacturers.  I can't find the La Marzocco sheet right now.

 

Dennis, I'm assuming that the readings you quoted were before water conditioning?  What do things look like after conditioning?

 

I have seen strange water stuff happen when machines were bench tested with unfiltered water prior to installation.  Though I'm sure the machine was fine when it left Washington, is there any chance this might have happened once it landed on the island?

 

james eric needham said:

Joe,

off the top of my head I cant remember the ranges, La Marzocco recomends aprox 3-5 grains of hardness (for flavor) but I cant remeber how to convert parts per million to grains. PH should be fairly nuetral or it can be agressive. you should be able to google best water for espresso. there is some blogs at coffeegeek and homebaristta websites that should answer your question.

hope this helps,

Eric

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dennis McQuoid on February 2, 2011 at 4:26pm

Ben, from NS suggested the MC filters may not eliminate enough minerals and suggested I use use the Everpure ESO instead. He also suggested I use a better water testing method as the strips are not as accurate - I agree with that after using them. I'm going to contact the water department. I think they check the water for free.

Out of 3 groups, one was really bad, another was not as bad but noticeably stained. the third  was not bad at all. I've been using the third exclusively and haven't noticed any further deterioration. The shots taste very good.

We are replacing the damaged parts now, so let's see what happens. Overall, as mentioned before, NS has responded pretty quickly getting my replacement parts here. Problems happen. What counts is the actions taken to find solutions. I happy with the efforts so far.

Brady said:

James, that 3-5 grains recommendation sounds too high. Where did you see that?

 

In the pre-installation checklist for the Aurelia, Nuova Simonelli recommends the following:

"Water hardness cannot exceed 3gpg or 50 ppm. If water hardness exceeds 3gpg a water softener must
be installed."

 

This is in line with recommendations by several other manufacturers.  I can't find the La Marzocco sheet right now.

 

Dennis, I'm assuming that the readings you quoted were before water conditioning?  What do things look like after conditioning?

 

I have seen strange water stuff happen when machines were bench tested with unfiltered water prior to installation.  Though I'm sure the machine was fine when it left Washington, is there any chance this might have happened once it landed on the island?

 

james eric needham said:

Joe,

off the top of my head I cant remember the ranges, La Marzocco recomends aprox 3-5 grains of hardness (for flavor) but I cant remeber how to convert parts per million to grains. PH should be fairly nuetral or it can be agressive. you should be able to google best water for espresso. there is some blogs at coffeegeek and homebaristta websites that should answer your question.

hope this helps,

Eric

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Brady on February 2, 2011 at 4:58pm

Agreed.  Ben, Ryan, and the rest of the crew there are great resources.

 

Often, you can get a good ballpark idea of what your water situation is by looking at your local annual report.  Have you looked at this yet?  I'm not at all familiar with your local geography, so don't know if this covers you.

 

Was the "pink water" group by any chance the group that you used least?

 

Dennis McQuoid said:

Ben, from NS suggested the MC filters may not eliminate enough minerals and suggested I use use the Everpure ESO instead. He also suggested I use a better water testing method as the strips are not as accurate - I agree with that after using them. I'm going to contact the water department. I think they check the water for free.

Out of 3 groups, one was really bad, another was not as bad but noticeably stained. the third  was not bad at all. I've been using the third exclusively and haven't noticed any further deterioration. The shots taste very good.

We are replacing the damaged parts now, so let's see what happens. Overall, as mentioned before, NS has responded pretty quickly getting my replacement parts here. Problems happen. What counts is the actions taken to find solutions. I happy with the efforts so far.

Brady said:

James, that 3-5 grains recommendation sounds too high. Where did you see that?

 

In the pre-installation checklist for the Aurelia, Nuova Simonelli recommends the following:

"Water hardness cannot exceed 3gpg or 50 ppm. If water hardness exceeds 3gpg a water softener must
be installed."

 

This is in line with recommendations by several other manufacturers.  I can't find the La Marzocco sheet right now.

 

Dennis, I'm assuming that the readings you quoted were before water conditioning?  What do things look like after conditioning?

 

I have seen strange water stuff happen when machines were bench tested with unfiltered water prior to installation.  Though I'm sure the machine was fine when it left Washington, is there any chance this might have happened once it landed on the island?

 

james eric needham said:

Joe,

off the top of my head I cant remember the ranges, La Marzocco recomends aprox 3-5 grains of hardness (for flavor) but I cant remeber how to convert parts per million to grains. PH should be fairly nuetral or it can be agressive. you should be able to google best water for espresso. there is some blogs at coffeegeek and homebaristta websites that should answer your question.

hope this helps,

Eric

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by james eric needham on February 4, 2011 at 3:28pm

Bradly, I cant find it yet I have too many manuals, the one I did find is a tech manual;

Water hardness is determined by parts per million of calcium and other minerals that are present
in the water. We recommend using the Hach model 5B test kit to accurately check the level of hardness
present. Water hardness should be maintained at a level below 4 grains or 68 parts per million.
If water hardness is higher than this either a water softener or reverse osmosis systems are necessary.
Filters are not able to remove dissolved mineral and are inadequate for levels above 4 grains hardness.

 

I do know that most manufactures require 3grains or less for the warranty

 

James, that 3-5 grains recommendation sounds too high. Where did you see that?

 

In the pre-installation checklist for the Aurelia, Nuova Simonelli recommends the following:

"Water hardness cannot exceed 3gpg or 50 ppm. If water hardness exceeds 3gpg a water softener must
be installed."

 

This is in line with recommendations by several other manufacturers.  I can't find the La Marzocco sheet right now.

 

Dennis, I'm assuming that the readings you quoted were before water conditioning?  What do things look like after conditioning?

 

I have seen strange water stuff happen when machines were bench tested with unfiltered water prior to installation.  Though I'm sure the machine was fine when it left Washington, is there any chance this might have happened once it landed on the island?

 

james eric needham said:

Joe,

off the top of my head I cant remember the ranges, La Marzocco recomends aprox 3-5 grains of hardness (for flavor) but I cant remeber how to convert parts per million to grains. PH should be fairly nuetral or it can be agressive. you should be able to google best water for espresso. there is some blogs at coffeegeek and homebaristta websites that should answer your question.

hope this helps,

Eric

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by marc norman on February 4, 2011 at 7:04pm

Anyone know why they recomend that you dont use the triple everpure csr in a home. I bought 2 units for a bar install and could not use the other one so I was going to put in in our home! does it not do enough or to much to filter the water? It seems like it would do better the a home depot filter. any help would be great.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dennis McQuoid on February 13, 2011 at 10:55am

Well I haven't done anything different since the corrosion issue, but there is no more corrosion problems. Shots are still sweet.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on February 13, 2011 at 12:14pm

Dennis,

You mentioned this is a new machine. We bought ours new. It was a Faema E61. It develped problems. Because of having a warrenty the machine was replaced with the Nuova Simonelli 2grp.

Weather or not it is covered by a warrenty I would contact the manufacture and run all this by them. Do not give up, they will talk to you.  You still have a serioius or significant problem that most of us in the business never see.

Joe

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Bill Warnock on March 24, 2011 at 7:07pm

ppm17.1=gpg1 i think either that or 14.1 or maybe thats psi in bars

 

dont use hot water

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