Hitting the sweet spot: Roasting
My current employment is a café/roastery, and hopefully soon, they will be able to teach me a little more about it, I.E. actually how to function the machine. In my opinion, we roast too light, and two dark. Practically we roast strictly on the Cracks, and I don't like that much. I'm trying to convince them to try a few different times so we can make the coffee have loads more flavor and hopefully be really sweet.
I believe the drum can roast 30lbs at once, but we typically do about 28lbs. Any suggestions of some key times that would be optimal for a great, sweet, tasty bean (especially with the new drip station).
Thanks
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on
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First crack 10:00-11:00
End of roast 12:30-16:00
Finish temp under 445.
Aaaaand go.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on
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What kind of roaster are you working with John?
I really like Bry's suggestion for you. Start as simple as possible. Then the learning will follow.
Keep not good records but great records and notes/profiles. Do religious cupping. Involve your clientele in your tasting / cupping sessions. I learn tons from my regulars.
Joe
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Permalink Reply by luke hudek on
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I do not think there is a way I could type an answer for this question, so I hope this will aid you:
http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/forum/
but your gonna have to dig to find where people shared their profiles, and there is a site called:
www.roastlog.com that has people share their curves with the public if they choose to.
Bry, I chuckled at your post not gonna lie, lovely!
Bryan Wray said:First crack 10:00-11:00
End of roast 12:30-16:00
Finish temp under 445.
Aaaaand go.
-bry
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Permalink Reply by John Gibbons on
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I suppose this is why they say being a roaster is truly an art form and takes experience.
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My main roasting mentor, ( he is on BX ), told me when I asked him a question like , " what do you think coffee is? more skill or art? His answer was, "ahhh, 50/50.
I went to a well know coffee roasting school, ( I believe there is really only two in the US who don't want to sell you a roaster ) BXers, please correct me if I'm off base here,
After a week and a half I felt like I had only had a peek at what this craft is all about. I now believe that is is more art than science.
I have been the coffee roaster for our business since 2007, I have a long way to go to being about to repeat my roasts on a consistant basis and come up with espresso blends like my mentors are doing. Yesterday I recieved an order via skype from Lebanon for 30lbs of my coffee. They always stop by our shop when in the area and told me they are much happier with my roast than anything they get at home. This kind of feed back goes a long way to boosting my confidence and passion to reach for the sky where the Coffee Gods drink the very best. <;^)
John Gibbons said:I suppose this is why they say being a roaster is truly an art form and takes experience.
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Joseph I loved reading this!
I made sure I had a background in chemistry, food science, and culinary workings before going out and training on my roaster. I once had a friend come over and ask why I wasn't following my temp gauge religiously and I responded with something along the lines of it didnt feel (smell and sound) the way it should for me to adjust at that moment. I would say there is a good bit of art to roasting, and there is no subsitute for experience.
Also, do not be afraid to mess around abuse the hell outa your sample roaster!
Joseph Robertson said:My main roasting mentor, ( he is on BX ), told me when I asked him a question like , " what do you think coffee is? more skill or art? His answer was, "ahhh, 50/50.
I went to a well know coffee roasting school, ( I believe there is really only two in the US who don't want to sell you a roaster ) BXers, please correct me if I'm off base here,
After a week and a half I felt like I had only had a peek at what this craft is all about. I now believe that is is more art than science.
I have been the coffee roaster for our business since 2007, I have a long way to go to being about to repeat my roasts on a consistant basis and come up with espresso blends like my mentors are doing. Yesterday I recieved an order via skype from Lebanon for 30lbs of my coffee. They always stop by our shop when in the area and told me they are much happier with my roast than anything they get at home. This kind of feed back goes a long way to boosting my confidence and passion to reach for the sky where the Coffee Gods drink the very best. <;^)
John Gibbons said:I suppose this is why they say being a roaster is truly an art form and takes experience.
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Thanks for the great responses! I really appreciate it! : )
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Permalink Reply by Stickman on
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Hmmm. I roast for our little espresso bar though I'm still new at it and I've been giving this a lot of thought lately..I don't think the time/temp relationship is nearly as important as roasting to the cracks and the spaces between them.
Usually I try to stay under second crack or (with the espresso) just into it. For example, we have an offering called Colombia 420 with the idea that I'll roast it to 420 degrees F...I did that for a year or two and I tried to nail 13:30 then I realized that it tastes better when I drag out the time between cracks and finish just as 2nd crack starts - there might be a few pops in the cooling bin - with a temp between 414 and 420. I rarely hit 420 anymore on anything. Espresso is usually under 423 as I take about 12 seconds into second crack. Generally, I am still aiming for a roast time of under 14:00 The hottest temp I've ever hit was 430 but there is every likelihood that my thermocouples provide differing readings than others.
There's a lot more to talk about and a lot more to learn...I've just begun charting bean densities and altering my charge temperatures for different densities...Also, I'm paying closer attention to environmental conditions, gas flow and how the 'winter effect' of using more gas uses more oxygen which must alter the volume and flow of air...But for the moment I'm really digging experimenting with the time between the cracks.
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As for sample roasting, how is that done without a small drum roaster. Doesn't less beans mean the temperature can easily raise and wouldn't the time be shorter? I would expect the different amounts in different size drums change a lot.
How would you go about this?
I really like James Hoffmann's idea of pulling a sample every minute after the first crack starts. It seems like that way you can find what's best and from there, narrow the window even more.
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John I am glad to see you are enthusiastic and posting on this forum. If you have not already done so buy and read this book and keep it for reference:
http://www.amazon.com/Home-Coffee-Roasting-Romance-Revival/dp/03121...
I cannot stress how useful it will be and how much it will aid you. I do not care if it says its for home roasters, the same concepts apply.
Subscribe to roast magazine, or snag the guy whose doing your roastings copy if you can.
I sample roast one of the dumbest ways possible, by hand on a copper drum. Any means of small batch (few hundred grams) roasting that you can control will work. Being consistent is key (in anything business/culinary not just roasting!)
I do not know how long you have worked for said cafe but this I can tell you. I work with two close friends (wife counts as a friend right?) and I am the only one who knows our roasts. I keep a folder with all my "recipes" (blends, profiles, crops I order etc..) and it is only used by them if I am physically unable to roast.
John Gibbons said:As for sample roasting, how is that done without a small drum roaster. Doesn't less beans mean the temperature can easily raise and wouldn't the time be shorter? I would expect the different amounts in different size drums change a lot.
How would you go about this?
I really like James Hoffmann's idea of pulling a sample every minute after the first crack starts. It seems like that way you can find what's best and from there, narrow the window even more.
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Are
you implying that I keep confidential in my learnings?? : ) haha I'm just kidding. I'm guessing by this you mean that what I learn is going to be from trial and error and that it will be very personal rather than something I can simply right down the directions for? Thanks! I'll definitely check out the book! I have the Professional Barista by scott Rao (spelling?) and I love it. It has been one of the most helpful books for me. But I'll take you're advice and hopefully I can buy it soon.
I have "roasted" by pan a while ago, and I didn't know much at the time. I know it's ridiculous and primitive, but i guess it sort of works if you keep the consistent beans??? Is this what you said you do for sampling?
I'm not saying that I "roasted" coffee or that it was even good, but I did it for the joy of trying without expense.
luke hudek said:
John I am glad to see you are enthusiastic and posting on this forum. If you have not already done so buy and read this book and keep it for reference:
http://www.amazon.com/Home-Coffee-Roasting-Romance-Revival/dp/03121...
I cannot stress how useful it will be and how much it will aid you. I do not care if it says its for home roasters, the same concepts apply.
Subscribe to roast magazine, or snag the guy whose doing your roastings copy if you can.
I sample roast one of the dumbest ways possible, by hand on a copper drum. Any means of small batch (few hundred grams) roasting that you can control will work. Being consistent is key (in anything business/culinary not just roasting!)
I do not know how long you have worked for said cafe but this I can tell you. I work with two close friends (wife counts as a friend right?) and I am the only one who knows our roasts. I keep a folder with all my "recipes" (blends, profiles, crops I order etc..) and it is only used by them if I am physically unable to roast.
John Gibbons said:As for sample roasting, how is that done without a small drum roaster. Doesn't less beans mean the temperature can easily raise and wouldn't the time be shorter? I would expect the different amounts in different size drums change a lot.
How would you go about this?
I really like James Hoffmann's idea of pulling a sample every minute after the first crack starts. It seems like that way you can find what's best and from there, narrow the window even more.
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And also, have you come across any affordable solution to practice this that produces some sort of consistency? Affordable is comparable to a home appliance. I.E. popcorn popper.
I wouldn't expect anything good out of it, but I'd like to think that it's possible make something tolerable for the joy of roasting.
luke hudek said:John I am glad to see you are enthusiastic and posting on this forum. If you have not already done so buy and read this book and keep it for reference:
http://www.amazon.com/Home-Coffee-Roasting-Romance-Revival/dp/03121...
I cannot stress how useful it will be and how much it will aid you. I do not care if it says its for home roasters, the same concepts apply.
Subscribe to roast magazine, or snag the guy whose doing your roastings copy if you can.
I sample roast one of the dumbest ways possible, by hand on a copper drum. Any means of small batch (few hundred grams) roasting that you can control will work. Being consistent is key (in anything business/culinary not just roasting!)
I do not know how long you have worked for said cafe but this I can tell you. I work with two close friends (wife counts as a friend right?) and I am the only one who knows our roasts. I keep a folder with all my "recipes" (blends, profiles, crops I order etc..) and it is only used by them if I am physically unable to roast.
John Gibbons said:As for sample roasting, how is that done without a small drum roaster. Doesn't less beans mean the temperature can easily raise and wouldn't the time be shorter? I would expect the different amounts in different size drums change a lot.
How would you go about this?
I really like James Hoffmann's idea of pulling a sample every minute after the first crack starts. It seems like that way you can find what's best and from there, narrow the window even more.
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