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Permalink Reply by Brian W. Jones on February 8, 2011 at 9:34am

First, it might help answer some of your questions by reading through these..

http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/ristretto-the-kone/

http://marrowmag.com/coffee/coava-coffee-roasters-kone-k1/

http://bitterpress.com/2010/11/03/reviews-coavas-kone-filter/

http://gizmodo.com/#!5704543/a-magic-metal-kone-for-brewing-coffee

 

It was designed for the Chemex, but works in the Hario as well. It doesn't use the ribs, the dripper mainly acts as a holder for the Kone. The Kone, in many ways, is its own brewing method. As for overheating, I don't think that's really an issue, if anything it helps maintain the brewing temperature the longer the water is off direct heat.

Clean up is incredibly easy as well. Tap the grounds into the compost or trash and rinse the residue with barely any effort.

 

Also, if you're curious about the quality of the coffee, the first Brewers Cup was just won using the Kone and a Chemex.

 

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Permalink Reply by John Gibbons on February 8, 2011 at 9:48am

Hmm, interesting! This might be cool then

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Permalink Reply by Nathanael May on February 8, 2011 at 10:09am

As I have had a good number of cups of coffee made with the KONE, I can assure you of a couple things:

1. The coffee doesn't overheat because of the metal - pour over solutions rarely (never?) have problems with overheating... just the opposite, in fact.

2. Unless I'm mistaken, while it will work in other drip cones, it was specifically designed to fit in a Chemex, and that's where its genius really shines brightest, in my opinion.

3. It cleans in the same manner as a French Press, only in less time. Yes, the grounds would cause issues in the sink, but you shouldn't be pouring the grounds directly in the sink anyway.

I've gone back and forth, and it really come down to what mood I'm in - sometimes I want the brew profile that is very unique to the KONE, sometimes I want the cleaner paper filter taste. It depends. Every method has pros and cons, but the cons you've listed shouldn't be an issue!

 

EDIT: how did I not see the much better written written response above mine?

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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on February 8, 2011 at 6:32pm

A few quick things:

 

I've seen you mention the ribs on the V60s a couple different times and I think it's important that you investigate (not just assume) what impact and how great an impact those ribs actually have.  In my opinion they don't really do anything to improve the coffee other than to allow pockets for air to form which cools the slurry (read as not a good thing).  You shouldn't be pouring in a swirl motion anyway as it forces the coffee to the outsides with so much force that it often results in channeling and "blind" overextraction (you won't see it happening but it is).  It was a great marketing gimmick on Hario's end to promote the ribs to the extent that they did, but honestly... I have no idea how they think those ribs improve the cup.  Chemex is arguably one of the best brewing methods around and it has no ribs at all (taste is obviously subjective).

 

In regards to heating, it actually doesn't really heat up at all and it loses it's preheat so fast that it almost has no point to preheating.  It warms up and cools incredibly fast, which in the case of the "warming up incredibly fast" absolutely works to your advantage because it makes your prep time much faster.  It certainly doesn't heat up or burn the coffee.  If that was true portafilter baskets wouldn't be made of metal.

 

The metal is finished in such a way that grounds really don't stick to it at all so cleanup is a breeze.  And, as others have mentioned, you shouldn't be sending any grounds down the sink, or at least minimal grounds down the sink.  Put a knock box next to the pour over station and you'll be all set.

 

For me the main cons are not what you have listed here.  We have 3 cafes and each of them has a busy pour over bar.  In order for our stations to function properly and efficently we would need to drop nearly $1100 for the necessary 30 filters (wholesale pricing) that would be required by our setup.  I understand that we make that money back in time by not having to throw away paper filters, but that's still a big hit to the wallet up front.

 

Also the sediment in the cup left a lot to be desired for a lot of our customers that were involved in testing the Kone with us.  I love the cleanliness that a paper filter provides, and when rinsed properly they really shouldn't take anything (too much) away from the cup.

 

While rather comical, the sharp edges could actually do some damage if you got moving too quickly and weren't paying close enough attention.  I think it would be beneficial for them to get the top seal rolled on future versions.  I can picture myself slicing my hand open while running a sponge around the top when I was cleaning at the end of the night.

 

The Kone, if nothing else, changed the way I look at my pouring technique.  Placing the Kone into a wire hanger assembly where there are no side walls (i.e. a coffee sock filter holder) showed me that by forcing circular movement in the coffee slurry I'm disturbing the water flow in a way that could hurt the extraction.  I still move in circles, but I don't "swirl" the slurry anymore, instead I make sure the direction of the stream from the kettle is always downward and slowly work my way around in a counter clockwise rotation, never getting any closer than 1" to the edge.

 

-bry

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Permalink Reply by John Gibbons on February 9, 2011 at 10:42am

Thanks! That's a good recommendation and all that makes a lot of sense. 

Question: Do you mind the sediments and other oils not trapped by the filter when using the kone? Do you think the purchase is worth it? 

Bryan Wray said:

A few quick things:

 

I've seen you mention the ribs on the V60s a couple different times and I think it's important that you investigate (not just assume) what impact and how great an impact those ribs actually have.  In my opinion they don't really do anything to improve the coffee other than to allow pockets for air to form which cools the slurry (read as not a good thing).  You shouldn't be pouring in a swirl motion anyway as it forces the coffee to the outsides with so much force that it often results in channeling and "blind" overextraction (you won't see it happening but it is).  It was a great marketing gimmick on Hario's end to promote the ribs to the extent that they did, but honestly... I have no idea how they think those ribs improve the cup.  Chemex is arguably one of the best brewing methods around and it has no ribs at all (taste is obviously subjective).

 

In regards to heating, it actually doesn't really heat up at all and it loses it's preheat so fast that it almost has no point to preheating.  It warms up and cools incredibly fast, which in the case of the "warming up incredibly fast" absolutely works to your advantage because it makes your prep time much faster.  It certainly doesn't heat up or burn the coffee.  If that was true portafilter baskets wouldn't be made of metal.

 

The metal is finished in such a way that grounds really don't stick to it at all so cleanup is a breeze.  And, as others have mentioned, you shouldn't be sending any grounds down the sink, or at least minimal grounds down the sink.  Put a knock box next to the pour over station and you'll be all set.

 

For me the main cons are not what you have listed here.  We have 3 cafes and each of them has a busy pour over bar.  In order for our stations to function properly and efficently we would need to drop nearly $1100 for the necessary 30 filters (wholesale pricing) that would be required by our setup.  I understand that we make that money back in time by not having to throw away paper filters, but that's still a big hit to the wallet up front.

 

Also the sediment in the cup left a lot to be desired for a lot of our customers that were involved in testing the Kone with us.  I love the cleanliness that a paper filter provides, and when rinsed properly they really shouldn't take anything (too much) away from the cup.

 

While rather comical, the sharp edges could actually do some damage if you got moving too quickly and weren't paying close enough attention.  I think it would be beneficial for them to get the top seal rolled on future versions.  I can picture myself slicing my hand open while running a sponge around the top when I was cleaning at the end of the night.

 

The Kone, if nothing else, changed the way I look at my pouring technique.  Placing the Kone into a wire hanger assembly where there are no side walls (i.e. a coffee sock filter holder) showed me that by forcing circular movement in the coffee slurry I'm disturbing the water flow in a way that could hurt the extraction.  I still move in circles, but I don't "swirl" the slurry anymore, instead I make sure the direction of the stream from the kettle is always downward and slowly work my way around in a counter clockwise rotation, never getting any closer than 1" to the edge.

 

-bry

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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on February 9, 2011 at 12:53pm

Yeah, personally I do mind the sediment, but I also know that I need to just practice more.  When I go to Coava I don't get as many fines in my cup as when I brew it myself so I know my technique still needs tweaking.

 

If you are just looking at buying one filter or maybe a three pack, I absolutely think it's worth it.  My only hesitation is when you start adding zeros to that quantity and subsequently a couple zeros to the final price tag.

 

-bry

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Permalink Reply by John Gibbons on February 9, 2011 at 1:10pm

Right, that makes sense. If my budget allows, then I'll invest. We'll see what my bank permits. 

Bryan Wray said:

Yeah, personally I do mind the sediment, but I also know that I need to just practice more.  When I go to Coava I don't get as many fines in my cup as when I brew it myself so I know my technique still needs tweaking.

 

If you are just looking at buying one filter or maybe a three pack, I absolutely think it's worth it.  My only hesitation is when you start adding zeros to that quantity and subsequently a couple zeros to the final price tag.

 

-bry

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Permalink Reply by Chad Christensen on February 27, 2011 at 11:03pm

 

I got a Kone & Chemex for Valentine's Day, and I love it:

 

* 25 grams of grounds

* 400 grams of water

* one minute of pouring into the center of the grounds

* 1:30-1:45 of extraction time for a total time of 2:30-2:45 to make a 12 OZ cup

 

Though they encourage experimentation, that's how they do it at Coava. I've also noticed that I get less cup sediment in my cups at Cova than I do at home. I have a quality commercial grinder (Pavoni Zip) with freshly changed burrs, but mine is no towering Mazzer, which might make a difference. My girlfriend's Virtuoso grinder gives quite a bit of sediment in the cup, despite its conical burrs. Maybe Coava is just careful to leave out the sediments at the end of the pour into the cup?

 

I've been able to use a gram scale to match the cup quality that Coava produces in-house, and I believe that the Kone is a legitimate contribution to the industry. They give a result that you can't get with paper filters or with the previously existing gold mesh filters. They came to market around the same time as the new Txpresso grouphead screens for the La Marzocco, and they are conceptually similar. Considering what Coava has also done with the Aeropress, the relationship between precision dispersion and extraction seems to be an industry focus. Maybe I'll get Txpresso screens for my GS2 project for my birthday? Fingers crossed...

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Permalink Reply by jt on March 22, 2011 at 9:53am

Whole point of pour over for me is a clean cup. Like all brew methods the Kone can produce some interesting things. Although it has fallen out of style i still prefer direct water contact methods, my favorite being the Eva Solo.

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Permalink Reply by Brian W. Jones on March 22, 2011 at 10:00am

Fallen out of style? I highly disagree.

However, there are many other ways to get a clean cup that aren't pourover, AeroPress and syphon being two of the cleanest. The main benefits of pourover isn't the clean cup, it's the control.

jt said:

Whole point of pour over for me is a clean cup. Like all brew methods the Kone can produce some interesting things. Although it has fallen out of style i still prefer direct water contact methods, my favorite being the Eva Solo.

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Permalink Reply by Benza Lance on March 22, 2011 at 2:53pm

One more vote for the Kone! I produce really clean cups at home, using the Skerton grinder. Utilizing a center pour, I experience minimal sludge in the cup.

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Permalink Reply by Chad Christensen on March 22, 2011 at 4:39pm

 

Cool to see this thread continue. I think that control, and a clean cup are equal features of the pour-over method. I've been doing some experimenting, and I've been getting less sediment in the cup by stopping the pour at 15 seconds, waiting thirty seconds, and then continuing the pour for a total of a 1:30 second pour that extracts completely betweein 2.30 & 2:45. I don't know for sure why I get this result this way, but that's been my experience. I also agree that a center pour produces less sediment. Coava used to do the thirty second pause after the first fifteen seconds of pouring, but have since stopped doing it.

 

If clean cup is what you're after, the siphon is totally where its at.

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