Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Brady on June 1, 2011 at 7:24pm

Hi Ben.

 

I'm pretty sure that nobody here will find the concept of home espresso offensive... we're mostly coffee-lovers here, and those that can afford a decent home rig probably have one. I think a good, accurate resource for home baristas is a good thing, and wish you luck in this project.

 

Your website looks good, and the videos are pretty well produced. One comment there - as a paranoid surfer, I found the number of different scripts from different sources (12?) to be a little off-putting, and I almost closed the window when the Facebook popup appeared.

 

Content, however, is a different matter.

 

Kudos to being self-directed in your quest for knowledge, however I think that if you are interested in creating a useful resource for home baristas, seeking professional training yourself would be very useful. Though I only watched two of your videos (the latte primer and the extraction one), and checked out your bean buying guide, there was a mix of somewhat accurate, incomplete, and downright incorrect stuff there. By attending a professional fundamentals class - given by a local roaster, the SCAA, or a professional training outfit, you can build your own knowledge and fundamental technique to take care of some of these inaccuracies and gaps.

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Permalink Reply by Troy J Mallett on June 1, 2011 at 8:13pm

Firstly, I commend you for taking on such a project.

 

Secondly, on to the critique. aka, cold hard truth.

 

The firm tap that you gave the portafilter between the first and second tamps will probably ruin the shot. It is a common (and some would say bad habit) technique that pros do to loosen the grounds that get stuck to the side of the filter basket. Unless you use a very small amount of force (about the same amount to hit the filter against your wrist) you will probably create channels which the water will follow through the grounds without properly saturating and extracting the espresso.  Using a bottomless portafilter is partially used as a training tool to stop this, as well as distribution problems, etc. Check out the articles on HomeBarista.com

I would likewise tell you to do some more research on proper distribution techniques. The pat down technique is a habit that I have to break all my novice baristas. You are right that it is meant to evenly distribute the grounds in the filter basket. However, pushing them down ruins this. That is what tamping is for. Learn the tap and sweep method if nothing else. (Fill the portafilter to a mound, tap it on the counter, and then using a straight object such as a ruler, sweep the grounds off the surface of the filter) Again, take a look at Homebarista.com (http://www.home-barista.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16199&am...)

 

Since the technique that we use as professional baristas and shop owners on our commercial machines is almost the exact same that would be used on your breville, it might be a good idea that you spend some time getting taught from a professional in a professional setting using commercial equipment so you can better explain to people who have no experience how to make a complex drink like espresso properly. I am sure that 50 hours might seem like a lot of experience, it is not.

 

Your site is quite beautiful, and I do wish you good fortune. I am fully supportive of anyone who wishes to pass on their passion for coffee.

 

PS. More close-ups!

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kouba on June 1, 2011 at 8:21pm

Troy,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply in detail. I resonate with a lot of what you said here, and I will take these tips to heart. I do plan to add to the videos and re-film them eventually. In the mean time, I'd like to learn as much as possible from more knowledgable people. I know that I'm still in 1st grade when it comes to all of this - but it's better to start somewhere than to wait until perfection comes.

 

Again, I truly appreciate your time.

 

Best,

Ben

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kouba on June 1, 2011 at 8:32pm

Brady,

 

Thanks for your comments. The facebook "pop" is gone for now. I was on the fence about that. It's a tough balance between generating traffic and trying to provide authentic and valuable content - especially when it is just getting off the ground.

 

By scripts, you're referring to external js like google analytics, etc? Interesting that those would make you paranoid, but I suppose I understand what you're getting at.

 

I'm laughing a little here (in a good way) since it is becoming evident by both of the responses that my attempt to self-educate has produced somewhat erratic results. Taking a class sounds like a good idea.

 

My biggest question in all of this is: Are there truly correct ways to do things, or are there varying opinions out there about things like proper tamping technique and extraction. It seems that what I thought were good sources are conflicting.

 

Thanks for your honest suggestions. I knew that there would likely be some serious critique by posting this, and I'm glad that the responses haven't been "oh isn't that great" or "get outta here buddy" :)

 

Thank you,

Ben

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Permalink Reply by Shadow on June 2, 2011 at 4:34am

Ben,

I think your site/idea is great and beats the hell out of many of the YouTube videos I've watched over the years regarding the art of perfecting espresso.

 

There are standards most follow regarding dosing, tamping, etc. but in reality the differences in equipment, home/commercial settings, coffees, etc. require tweaks to get the very best out of what something has to offer. Even if that means going against the typical standards some live by...

 

I do agree with the professional fundamentals class if you can find something like that in your area. 

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kouba on June 2, 2011 at 4:57am

Thank you, Shadow. I'm going to look for a class in my area. I live about equidistance from Baltimore and Philly, so there's got to be something around here.

 

I appreciate your time to reply!

Ben

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Permalink Reply by Brady on June 2, 2011 at 5:51am

Ben Kouba said:

...My biggest question in all of this is: Are there truly correct ways to do things, or are there varying opinions out there about things like proper tamping technique and extraction. It seems that what I thought were good sources are conflicting...

I think that is a great question, and Shadow had a good answer.

 

As you've found, one of the big problems with espresso, coffee (and frankly lots of things) is the amount of noise out there. As a self-directed beginner, the great challenge is separating out the noise from the important stuff. Most "fundamentals" classes pare down the information to the solid fundamentals (hence the name?) - telling you both what to do and also why... enabling you to start from an approach that is more universal and make good choices for your tweaks. Too many internet resources muddy the waters with equipment-specific approaches, next-level optimizations, and other stuff that is probably useful to some users, but is confusing and counter-productive for others.

 

The trick, then, is to get to the core essentials - simple approaches that are easy to communicate, easy for newbies to consistently replicate, and give good results across the huge spectrum of equipment out there. This approach should also be consistent with the things we know to be necessary for producing a good result.

 

So yeah, there are lots of ways to get a good espresso - few perfect, some good, many bad. Some will yield consistent results, others won't. Some are easy to do, some are hard. Some will work on my machine, some won't.

 

Figure out the essentials and communicate them. Don't contribute to the noise.

 

Again, good luck with your site. Glad you are finding this feedback useful.

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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Gray on June 2, 2011 at 9:37am

Well said Brady

 

The biggest part of that, if your going to teach, is being able to explain the why and why not. Like Troy did in response to tapping the portafilter and what it will do to the extraction. If you can not tell me the why or why not, then your just telling me your way of doing it. Which is not always the "fundamental" way it should be done. I think you'll come to realize that there is much to learn! As Troy mentioned Home-Barista.com is an amazing resource to educate yourself. This page specifically(http://www.home-barista.com/resources.html) could keep you busy for hours. Another site I've learned a lot from is Sweet Maria's, It's a little more geared to home roasters, but also has good information about brewing. Just seek the why more than the how!

 

Good luck

 

Jeremy

Brady said:

Ben Kouba said:

...My biggest question in all of this is: Are there truly correct ways to do things, or are there varying opinions out there about things like proper tamping technique and extraction. It seems that what I thought were good sources are conflicting...

I think that is a great question, and Shadow had a good answer.

 

As you've found, one of the big problems with espresso, coffee (and frankly lots of things) is the amount of noise out there. As a self-directed beginner, the great challenge is separating out the noise from the important stuff. Most "fundamentals" classes pare down the information to the solid fundamentals (hence the name?) - telling you both what to do and also why... enabling you to start from an approach that is more universal and make good choices for your tweaks. Too many internet resources muddy the waters with equipment-specific approaches, next-level optimizations, and other stuff that is probably useful to some users, but is confusing and counter-productive for others.

 

The trick, then, is to get to the core essentials - simple approaches that are easy to communicate, easy for newbies to consistently replicate, and give good results across the huge spectrum of equipment out there. This approach should also be consistent with the things we know to be necessary for producing a good result.

 

So yeah, there are lots of ways to get a good espresso - few perfect, some good, many bad. Some will yield consistent results, others won't. Some are easy to do, some are hard. Some will work on my machine, some won't.

 

Figure out the essentials and communicate them. Don't contribute to the noise.

 

Again, good luck with your site. Glad you are finding this feedback useful.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kouba on June 2, 2011 at 10:37am

Thanks, Jeremy. I appreciate the insight and the links!

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Permalink Reply by Shadow on June 2, 2011 at 11:49am

Have been carefully skimming through your videos... have to add a few things. The beans you use look a bit dark, at least compared to what I prefer and hopefully you're using something cheap for demonstration only. Hate to say the first extraction looked like colored water. Ideally espresso should have much more body than that and be thick/syrupy in texture, as well as having a reddish brown color, but of course all these things vary based on coffee, brew temperature/pressure, etc....

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Permalink Reply by Ben Kouba on June 2, 2011 at 12:32pm

Thanks, Shadow.

 

I'm the first to admit that I'm still on the learning journey, and that both the videos and techniques need improvement. Any specific tips like that are helpful to me.

 

I do plan to take a class as has been recommended - great idea! I have planned from the beginning to refilm the videos after collecting feedback (the main reason why I started this thread).

 

So thank you for your tips, and keep them coming if you feel inclined. It was a lot of work to put the site together, and it is not easy to watch myself speaking in front of the camera knowing that there are many others who could do a better job. However, I did the best I could, and will make progress in the direction of perfection :)

 

Best,

Ben

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