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Permalink Reply by Brady on September 27, 2011 at 4:27am

I use a Compak K-10 doser with no timer and redistribute with my finger, mainly to achieve a consistent dose.

 

It is my understanding that if your grinder does an adequate job of distributing the ground espresso AND you use a typical old-style basket you may not need to do anything else. Haven't experimented with this myself, but have enjoyed lots of tasty results of the no-distribute process.

 

There have been discussions about the VST basket possibly impacting this - the bottom line perhaps being that distribution is more necessary with the more evenly perforated basket?

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Permalink Reply by Jonathen Liu on September 27, 2011 at 9:54am

Hey Dustin,

 

As far as distributing goes, I tend to distribute if working off a manual grinder, not distribute off of an automatic. With an automatic, I just lift my portafilter as the espresso doses into my basket, and then do a firm, single clank, and it settles the bed pretty evenly. I don't have issues with channeling unless I, myself, tamped unevenly. When I train people, I usually tell them the same thing. That being said, and as touched on by Brady a little, whether you decide to distribute or not distribute, just do it the same way every time, and you'll get consistency.

 

I've also pulled shots through the laser cut baskets and haven't experienced any radical/noticeable differences between the 2.

 

So really, to end, I guess the better question is, are you using a manual grinder or an automatic?

 

Best,

 

Jonathen

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Permalink Reply by Fraser Jamieson on September 27, 2011 at 11:45am

I own a pair of Compak K10 doserless grinders. Depending on the number of days post-roast as well as humidity etc. I will sometimes experience soft clumping with my decaf. Rather than using my finger to distribute I make a series of "cuts" into the surface with a small stainless blade then give the portafilter a vertical bump. All our portafilters are spoutless so we find it easy to achieve a nice uniform dose by working this way.

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Permalink Reply by Phil Roberts on September 27, 2011 at 5:07pm

Dustin,

 

The main purpose for distributing on a manual grinder (not doeserless/E models) is to achieve a consistent dose. Another reason is to create a flat surface before tamping to decrease channeling. The reason you see baristas not distributing the coffee on doserless/E model grinders is because the amount of coffee per dose is set using the timer and the margin of fluctuation between doses is comparable to what we do when we distribute. When we distribute on a manual grinder, we dose higher and create a flat bed to ensure the proper amount of coffee.

 

We have tested numerous shots on e model grinders, both distributing and not, and channeling did not appear to be an issue. Because of that, we skipped the distributing step on e model grinders.

 

If you are using a grinder with a doser, continue dosing and distributing, and maybe weigh out a bunch of shots skipping that step to see what the fluctuation is. Consistency is the key to pulling great shots, and if your dose changes dramatically between shots and baristas, then you will see what we mean.

 

I hope that clarifies some things. It's always great to question why you do certain things. Always question and seek to improve! An always have fun!!!

 

Phil

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Permalink Reply by Dustin DeMers on September 28, 2011 at 1:05am

   Thanks everyone who has commented so far. I defiantly get that I redistribute and then swipe off the excess coffee to help control the dose. And we use funneled roburs, not the E but the dosered ones with the doseing chamber taken off. I bring a scale to work with me everyday and realized today thats its a lot harder to dose weight accurately with out redistributing. But even at the goal weight (lets say 21g's) I felt like the untouched doses didn't flow ideally. There seemed to be more of a donut extraction than normal.(starting from the outside of the basket and moving inward)

 

   Now like Brady mentioned, the baskets at work are 21 g VST baskets. Ive also read the coffee geek article about these baskets, which is where they mention that creating a center mound doesn't work.

  I guess I really want the center mound dose to work, it would mean zero waste(assuming your using a timed grinder) and less time fiddling with the coffee. Hmm... I need to experiment more. Anyone else have an opinion?

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Permalink Reply by Phil Roberts on September 28, 2011 at 2:42am

You're right about needed the flat surface for the VST baskets. The mound works with the old style to compensate for the lack of holes near the edges.

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Permalink Reply by Dustin DeMers on September 28, 2011 at 11:24am

I have a generic lazer cut basket that i prefer over the VST. They are almost identical under magnification. The VST seems to be way more temperamental. I think because its slightly thicker and the generic has a slightly rounder base.

 

  Anyway I think I might be paying to much attention to redistribution, because in my one day of testing, some of the best shots came from one fast swoop over the top of the basket (figure strike?) instead of stockflesh move.

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Permalink Reply by Joona Suominen on September 29, 2011 at 3:00am

Generic lazer cut baskets? Where did you get those?

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Permalink Reply by Dustin DeMers on September 29, 2011 at 7:45am

Ok so the best part about the generic lazer cut is it came free with a bottomless portafilter I bought for my home machine, i believe it was from seattle coffee gear. I relized it was different from other baskets when it arrived, but didn't realize it looks exactly like a vst basket til recently. There are some slight differences between the two, but i think i prefer the generic. I believe Espresso parts sells them, just look under triple basket.

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Permalink Reply by Jonathen Liu on September 29, 2011 at 10:19am

I also def agree with Phil's assertion of doserless vs. non as far as distribution goes. An account I was just working with realized they didn't need to hand distribute anymore, so long as they were consistent in their technique, and they were using the laser cut baskets as well. The one thing I will say about the article on CoffeeGeek is that it gives a great amount of insight to distribution techniques and the laser cuts. That being said, at the end of the day, find the technique you like, do it the same way every time, and more importanly, if you like how it pulls, then that's all that matters!

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Permalink Reply by David Fell on September 29, 2011 at 10:28am

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but do you weigh your doses?  For our Simonelli Aurelia, to pull a double shot, 18 grams of espresso is the proper dosing amount into the portafilter.  I am not the expert that many on here are but I have been professionally barista-ing for over 7 years now and have seen good, great and the unforgivable when it comes to coffee, especially espresso coffee.  I don't know what kind of machine you are pulling shots on, so I would ask the manufacturer what the suggested dosing weight amount is for a double or whatever.  Bottom line is this, if you are dosing too little or too much, the redistributing won't make much of a difference.  If redistributing is working for you and all your indicators look great when you pull your shots, then why fix it if it isn't broken?  Sorry for being so wordy.

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