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Permalink Reply by Mike Sabol on November 26, 2012 at 1:50pm

I'd get the Strada. La Marzocco's support network is better in the states and that machine is WELL built. Really in a class of it's own. The only other machine I've seen as well done is Kees' Mirage. Faemas also have lots of body panel bobbles and doo-dads that break and are hard to source and replace. The computer interface on the Strada is better, too. The Faema's computer makes you interact with it way more often and can be a bit confusing at times. This is all my humble opinion, however. You should take them for a test drive, if you can.

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Permalink Reply by stephano on November 26, 2012 at 2:03pm

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR ANSWER!

I AM AT SAN FRANCISCO, I CAN FIND THE FAEMA DEALER EASILY,SO I VISIT THERE TO SEE OPRATING WORKS. BUT CAN'T FIND LA MARZOCCO DEALER OR SHOWROOM...

SOME PLACE USING STRADA MP..SO I VISIT THERE TO LOOK AROUND BUT NO ONE USING

STRADA EP...

 
Mike Sabol said:

I'd get the Strada. La Marzocco's support network is better in the states and that machine is WELL built. Really in a class of it's own. The only other machine I've seen as well done is Kees' Mirage. Faemas also have lots of body panel bobbles and doo-dads that break and are hard to source and replace. The computer interface on the Strada is better, too. The Faema's computer makes you interact with it way more often and can be a bit confusing at times. This is all my humble opinion, however. You should take them for a test drive, if you can.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Sabol on November 26, 2012 at 3:34pm

I don't know San Francisco so I can't tell you where to look but if you get in contact with La Marzocco USA I'm sure they can point you in the right direction.  206-706-9104.  I'd also recommend looking at the EP because you can program the extraction profiles.  Which makes pulling shots more repeatable.

 

The Faema is a great machine and I don't mean to sound like it's not good.  They pull fantastic coffee.  So you should go with what feels the best to you and since you already know the Faema guys that's worth something.  Let us know which way you go.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Shipley on November 29, 2012 at 8:41pm

We just put the the Rancilio Class 9 with Xcelcius on the bar at Conscious Cup. Amazing machine, the biggest issue for me is repeatability of shots between baristas. The temp profiling gives me exceptional control over the taste of drinks in the cafe, I get that a great barista can make an incredible shot on a MP machine and the Strada will produce amazing results but its like a musical instrument it takes a trained hand to really make it sing. The Rancilio is much more forgiving and allows the owner dictate the taste of drinks served, yes it takes some control out of the hands of the barista but who's vision are you selling? 

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Permalink Reply by Brady on November 30, 2012 at 6:02am

Warning - this is going to be a little negative.

I have an issue with all of the aforementioned choices for many customers. This response is not geared specifically towards you, Stephano, it's me speaking generally about machines of this nature.

Yes, these machines give an operator unprecedented control of extraction variables, but what will they DO with that control? Are they among the relatively small handful of people that know what to do, which parameter to tweak, how to build a training program to make your baristas competent? Or are they interested in it because it is supposed to be the best, most advanced espresso machine. If all one will do is run the factory default or do what the tech support guy suggests then I say there are far better machine choices.

These machines come with big downsides. They more complicated to set up and use. They are more expensive. They are mechanically and electronically more complex, which generally decreases reliability and increases operating cost and potential downtime. Many roasters and techs do not understand enough about these capabilities to provide much in the way of support.

Sorry to say, but a substantial portion of cafe owners and working baristas in the world can't manage a decent espresso on a semiautomatic GB/5.

Hate to be party pooper, but I firmly believe that the best choice for the vast, vast majority of customers is a good, solid, stable, and reliable traditional espresso machine.

There's a big difference between the benefits of a temperature profiling machine like the Rancilio, a pressure profiling machine like the Strada, or a multi-boiler/non-profiling machine like (I believe) the Faema, the +4U, etc. What is the goal one is trying to accomplish by going with one of these machines? Ability to run multiple espressos at their perfect temp? Great stability and consistency? Ability to nuance and finesse each and every shot? Bragging rights?

Knowing that will help you understand which direction you should head.

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Permalink Reply by Chad Kimm on November 30, 2012 at 1:21pm

One quick note on the Strada EP.  La Marzocco requires relatively involved and specific training to buy one of these.  You can't just call up and order one.  The Strada MP is manually operated and is a much different machine than the full auto Faema you're considering.  

I agree with Brady on most of his points.  I am curious, Brady about what you consider a 'traditional' machine, a semi-auto or a fully automatic?  

We regularly work with La Marzocco with machine sales and service and have had very good success with them.  They have a deep inventory of replacement parts.  I also think chances are better that you'll find technicians in your area that are more familiar with La Marzocco as compared to Faema. I have nothing against Faema.  They make great equipment.  

For most of our customers, we have found that the fully auto La Marzocco GB/5 is a great choice.  You have all of the programming available, but like most fully auto machines can be used to extract manually as well.  The GB/5 and FB/80 are the same machine inside with a different look on the outside.  Linea's are still a great machine, but lack things like auto pre-infusion and the PID for custom programming. They're much more comparable to the Faema you're looking at.   The semi-auto versions of any of them, including the Strada MP, require your barista's to be much more aware of what they are doing.  This of course is exactly what all shop owners would like to see, but the reality of it is that not every barista on staff will be as concerned about their craft as others.  For better or worse, fully auto machines help compensate for complacency.

BTW, quality espresso comes primarily from quality coffee prepared by a well trained barista and not as much from the machine.     

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Permalink Reply by Scott on December 1, 2012 at 11:37am

I'm not sure what LM requires for specific training to purchase a Strada, but my personal experience at local cafes has left me somewhat underwhelmed.  However, having played with one, I can't see what special training would be needed.

We have worked with LM for a long time, and they are great to work with.  If I need parts, I call or email.  I've worked on one Faema in the last year and I didn't deal with Faema for parts.  And wouldn't even think to call them, honestly.  But then I haven't seen a new Faema in the wild for quite some time.  

And I believe all LM machines are now PID.  

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Permalink Reply by Keith Eckert on December 10, 2012 at 10:40am

I'm not sure what LM requires for specific training to purchase a Strada

This only applies to the Electronic Paddle EP Stradas.  They are a bit complex and not for everyone.

I would not recommend a Stada to anyone unless they are passionate about training their staff to use it correctly.  I have seen the MP group used like an on/off switch before...save some money and buy a GB5/EE if that is the case.  You and your customers will be happier.

Keith

Venia Coffee

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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on December 12, 2012 at 8:37am

If my choice was between a La Marzocco and a Faema, it would be La Marzocco all the way.

Of course, I'd choose La Marzocco over just about any other machine on the market (though Kees makes a very compelling choice).  Without knowing your specifics, I would steer you away from the Strada and towards a GB/5 (with paddle groups, if that's important). You'll find the GB/5 has greater reliability and more straightforward in operation, plus it comes at a lower price point and does not have the operational issues as the still very new Strada.  

Owning a Strada should be done with open eyes and a ready technician to cover any issues.

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Permalink Reply by Scott on December 12, 2012 at 12:05pm

OK, I've looked at some more info on the Faema,  and I would say run, run far away.  Too many electronic gadgets and autosteam is like a plague IMPO.  

And the MP paddle is basically an on/off switch with soft preinfusion control.  Not sure why that would be a factor against it?   Or a in choosing GB5/EE over it?  

This post is way past "next week".  Wonder what the decision was.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Eckert on December 12, 2012 at 4:29pm

And the MP paddle is basically an on/off switch with soft preinfusion control.  Not sure why that would be a factor against it?   Or a in choosing GB5/EE over it? 

Because they do not utilize the pre-infusion control given by the MP.

Not sure why that would be a factor against it?   Or a in choosing GB5/EE over it? 

I really like the MP group, but it does introduce a variable in the extraction process that requires a bit more attention given by the barista.  This variable is what makes the group great in my book, but if you are going to bypass the function by sliding the paddle all the way on with every shot, spend your money more wisely. 

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Permalink Reply by Charles Banner on December 15, 2012 at 6:44pm

Ep! Love that machine!

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