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Permalink Reply by Banana Dang on October 16, 2008 at 5:40am

Yes, we own a small specialty coffee house in Rincon, Puerto Rico called Banana Dang with a very limited menu. Our market is 90% tourists and a few locals. We serve 8oz and 12oz espresso based drinks.

The tourists come from all over the world - the ones from the States are used to 24 oz lattes. We've heard comments like "make my drink just like Starbucks" to which we reply, "We can't, but we will do our best." After they sip a Macchiato in a demitasse (not a Venti), their eyes always light up.

People will appreciate what you have to offer when the quality of the drink speaks for itself. If you don't carry 24oz cups, you won't have to deal with 24oz drinks. We also only carry 4 syrups (vanilla, banana, hazelnut and caramel). That way we can focus on the "traditional" espresso based drinks (we express this to the customer). Customers want to feel special, and will appreciate the espresso knowledge they receive when they walk into your store. We do give customers some sort of customization option - if they want a 4 shot cappuccino with 2 flavorings of syrup, we will serve it but will add that "we can't guarantee the taste" since it's not in our drink menu. They come back 100% of the time.

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Permalink Reply by Nick Griffith on October 16, 2008 at 12:25pm

Intelli LA serves 8-12oz lattes, 6oz capps and only 12oz coffee.
We're fairly successful with the limited smaller size.

We don't consider ourselves "traditional", we simply make drinks the way we feel they taste best.
Be careful with pushing the traditional aspect of espresso bars.
To a lot of people traditional Italian screams a host of bad things i.e. not cleaning the espresso machine, 7g singles, pre-grinding, using lower grade coffee mixed with robusta like Illy or LavAzza.
"Traditional" is also a bit of indicator that progress has been ignored in some respects and you might be using some older techniques or practices that have been improved upon.

Bottom line, do things the way YOU feel they taste best. And if you fell they taste best with robusta coffee out of a dirty machine... well, good luck (That was just an example, I'm assuming you clean your machine and use a good quality, locally roasted espresso).
Nick

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Permalink Reply by Marista on October 16, 2008 at 1:35pm

I agree with both of the responses. At Barefoot we serve 12oz lattes, 6oz cappuccinos and 12 or 20oz coffee.

Being a passionate, educated and quality-focused barista goes a long way with customers. That said, I understand how difficult it is to go from serving syrup-based drinks, etc to a simple, coffee-centered menu.

If you really stand behind your craft, I think it's perfectly fine to assume that the customer is not always right, however they are "king' and deserve great service. Saying "sorry" oftentimes isn't enough, it's important to explain why what you serve is better.

Marie

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Permalink Reply by Al Sterling on October 16, 2008 at 2:56pm

Andrew...so I'll humbly share what we came up with for a marketing answer to this dilema; split menu. Left side of the short menu (essentially) says, "Traditional Northern Italian", and the right side of the menu, "American Espresso Drinks." I'm not saying this is the answer, but just sharing what some thought on this produced for us. My sales model started, and will stay, a very short menu. We're still in development as inserts for up and running businesses. I saw no reason to upset servers over trying to train the populace; that's a tall order. And as most have found, it can be challenging and sometimes demoralizing. It takes you off-focus on your chosen mission. So the suggestion here is to let the customer start the conversation by asking why the board-menu is split in half. Short sentence responses, waiting for the next question, is best. When they stop asking, you start brewing. Worst case, you'll get a certain percentage that will try something they haven't had before. This presumes that you'll stock and serve some limited amount of "coffee flavored milk drinks."

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Schawel on October 16, 2008 at 9:48pm

I appreciate your insight into the connotations of "traditional." It's really true. I mean, where did coffee come from? Over-roasted, inconsistent, etc. I'll look to present a quality interpretation of traditionally inspired coffee.

Nick Griffith said:

Intelli LA serves 8-12oz lattes, 6oz capps and only 12oz coffee.
We're fairly successful with the limited smaller size.

We don't consider ourselves "traditional", we simply make drinks the way we feel they taste best.
Be careful with pushing the traditional aspect of espresso bars.
To a lot of people traditional Italian screams a host of bad things i.e. not cleaning the espresso machine, 7g singles, pre-grinding, using lower grade coffee mixed with robusta like Illy or LavAzza.
"Traditional" is also a bit of indicator that progress has been ignored in some respects and you might be using some older techniques or practices that have been improved upon.

Bottom line, do things the way YOU feel they taste best. And if you fell they taste best with robusta coffee out of a dirty machine... well, good luck (That was just an example, I'm assuming you clean your machine and use a good quality, locally roasted espresso).
Nick

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Permalink Reply by Banana Dang on October 17, 2008 at 4:37am

Right. Well put, Nick. By "traditional" we meant cup sizes, not bad cleaning habits. We keep an eye on best methods and also serve the best coffee we can find on the island. On occasion we ship in some Intelligentsia as a special treat. Thanks for clarifying that.

Nick Griffith said:

Intelli LA serves 8-12oz lattes, 6oz capps and only 12oz coffee.
We're fairly successful with the limited smaller size.

We don't consider ourselves "traditional", we simply make drinks the way we feel they taste best.
Be careful with pushing the traditional aspect of espresso bars.
To a lot of people traditional Italian screams a host of bad things i.e. not cleaning the espresso machine, 7g singles, pre-grinding, using lower grade coffee mixed with robusta like Illy or LavAzza.
"Traditional" is also a bit of indicator that progress has been ignored in some respects and you might be using some older techniques or practices that have been improved upon.

Bottom line, do things the way YOU feel they taste best. And if you fell they taste best with robusta coffee out of a dirty machine... well, good luck (That was just an example, I'm assuming you clean your machine and use a good quality, locally roasted espresso).
Nick

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Permalink Reply by Chris Weybright on October 19, 2008 at 5:36am

Watch out! A well-pulled 7g single can be a beautiful thing! I could talk just as much junk about the overdosed crap a lot of espresso jockies out there are slinging...

But on the topic: if you stand to your guns and explain politely to your customers what you are doing, you will do fine. Some people may not come back, in favor of the bar down the street that will serve them a 16oz, extra hot hazlenut cappuccino, but thems the breaks.

I've also found that standing the occasional reluctant customer a drink goes a long way. Someting like, "here: this is how we make a latte. It's on me". Most of the time they love it and become repeats. That's not to say they don't also go elsewhere occasionally to get their caramel macchiato fix!

Nick Griffith said:

Intelli LA serves 8-12oz lattes, 6oz capps and only 12oz coffee. We're fairly successful with the limited smaller size.
We don't consider ourselves "traditional", we simply make drinks the way we feel they taste best.
Be careful with pushing the traditional aspect of espresso bars.
To a lot of people traditional Italian screams a host of bad things i.e. not cleaning the espresso machine, 7g singles, pre-grinding, using lower grade coffee mixed with robusta like Illy or LavAzza.
"Traditional" is also a bit of indicator that progress has been ignored in some respects and you might be using some older techniques or practices that have been improved upon.

Bottom line, do things the way YOU feel they taste best. And if you fell they taste best with robusta coffee out of a dirty machine... well, good luck (That was just an example, I'm assuming you clean your machine and use a good quality, locally roasted espresso).
Nick

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Permalink Reply by graeme finegan on October 28, 2008 at 11:41am

I had a custokmer enter my new store in belfast looking for a quality take away sandwich, he was holding a frappeccino from starbucks! a caramel one i think! Now I asked him why he didnt let us make it! He said because he never knew we done it!

So what did I do!? I offered him a trade- i made him my own caramel frappe with a couple of shots of great espresso, took his starbucks one off him and binned it!

As independant coffee shops we have the ability to super customize our drinks! We shouldn't say, we'll try our best! we shouild say like starbucks, ill make you drink which will make you never retrun to starbucks!

also on the size front, for a wee while i ran a 8 and 12oz takeaway cup, i've stripped it down to just 12oz, this works for me, when people ask for a small they get 12oz, when they ask for a reg they get 12oz. Its simple and i dont think i would ever go any bigger, not in ireland anyway, its not particularly normal here for 20oz coffee etc. But i suppose if the market your in wants 20oz drinks they have to get it!

I suggest asking your customers what they thinki??? they know best they buy from you?

g

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