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Permalink Reply by Jesse -D-> on April 28, 2009 at 9:00am

switching back and forth from triple to double seems like it would be difficult. How do you manage this?

Katherine Anible said:

We use double ristrettos for 12 oz. triple ristretto for 16 oz. and two doubles for 20 oz. The 20oz. cup is always teetering on the ban, but too many people are dedicated. but an 8 oz. with a dbl. ? that would be ideal. :) my boys are sneaky and like to use triples for the 12 oz. , which is better in reality.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on April 28, 2009 at 10:36am

Jesse -D-> said:

Well, I see your point. But I also feel like the "double", "triple" lingo contributes to misunderstanding. While you make a good point about 3-4oz shots, I feel like customers expect increased volume when they order a "double". They are thinking "oh, a double, that means I get 2 shots."
(snip)

Agreed that this might be confusing on their first foray into an espresso joint but should be pretty clear afterward, assuming that the shop is clear and consistent with their terminology.

I guess we don't run into as much confusion since we still use spouted portafilters and often pull into shot glasses. They think they are getting two shots, and they actually are.

Jesse -D-> said:

(snip) we pull around 21g to 1.5-2oz. So your double looks just like our triple (we might be able to see the differences but most customers wouldn't) and this is where it becomes confusing.

Agreed there... especially since your ristretto triple sounds like what other shops will call an updosed double. If we would all be more consistent with how we use the names there would be a lot less confusion.

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Permalink Reply by Jesse -D-> on April 28, 2009 at 11:02am

indeed, I'll let you take care of the standardization of espresso terms,, heheh. That would be quite the challenge.

Updosed seems like it is one of the terms that makes this more confusing, then again I guess you could say the same about Ristretto.

I liken it to a recipie. Say you have 2 recipes for white bread. They don't have to be identical, you still get white bread in the end. Is either one more correct than the other? I am rambling off topic now so I will stop.

Thanks for the discussion Brady.

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Permalink Reply by Greenway Barista on April 28, 2009 at 1:19pm

naked portafilter has no spouts, so in theory that would be an updosed single =]

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Permalink Reply by Jesse -D-> on April 29, 2009 at 5:23am

yes a seriously updosed single!

Buehrer said:

naked portafilter has no spouts, so in theory that would be an updosed single =]

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Permalink Reply by Chadwick Rookstool on April 29, 2009 at 12:05pm

Here at the shop where I am working we are pulling ~2oz of espresso from 21-22g of coffee. Triple basket pulling as a double ristretto.

6oz capp gets a double ristretto from the triple basket (21-22g, 2oz of espresso)
8oz drinks get a double pulled through a double spouted portafilter with 14g of coffee
every drink on up gets a triple as the base and then single shots split from the double to keep the flavor consistent throughout the drink size

12oz triple basket double ristretto
16oz triple basket single shot split from the double basket
20oz triple basket both shots from the double basket

I can see how that might be confusing but when you finally figure out what your saying and what your hearing, understanding the terms and such, then you can realize what exactly it is your tasting and how it got there. Customers can appreciate that.

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Permalink Reply by Chadwick Rookstool on April 29, 2009 at 12:07pm

Also I rarely get that detailed with a customer haha.

Unless they ask :)

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Permalink Reply by J. David Waldman on April 29, 2009 at 4:04pm

21 gram ridgeless synesso baskets on bottomless portafilter looking for 25 seconds (mas o menos) with crema forming meniscus @top of shot glass ... essentially a triple ristretto, whatever that means. to be accurate, you need to weigh the mass of the coffee against the mass of the shot (each tared) to find a percentage.

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Permalink Reply by Jesse -D-> on April 29, 2009 at 4:31pm

I find that depending on the day what tastes the best doesn't always have the same volume or mass.

J. David Waldman said:

21 gram ridgeless synesso baskets on bottomless portafilter looking for 25 seconds (mas o menos) with crema forming meniscus @top of shot glass ... essentially a triple ristretto, whatever that means. to be accurate, you need to weigh the mass of the coffee against the mass of the shot (each tared) to find a percentage.

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Permalink Reply by Duane and Tiffany Youngren on April 30, 2009 at 11:30am

Great input from so many people!

We keep it pretty simple - I think we'd blow our drive thru customers' minds if we made it much more complicated. Some new customers still think a capp automatically comes with flavoring, and mochas automatically come with whip.

We use 1oz shots.

Lattes and Mochas
8 oz hot / 12 oz cold = 1 shot
12 oz hot / 16 oz cold = 1 shot
16 oz hot / 20 oz cold = 2 shots
20 oz hot / 24 oz cold = 2 shots

The customer can add shots for an additional charge.

That's the way we roll, anway! I look forward to continuing to read the feedback.

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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on April 30, 2009 at 12:32pm

We just have 12oz and 16oz drinks and we just pull "2 shots" into everything.

Our "two shots" are 19-21 grams depending on the blend, etc. We pull that to around 25 seconds, again depending on blend, to a volume of about 2.5 ounces.

-bry

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Permalink Reply by Greenway Barista on April 30, 2009 at 2:33pm

isnt it amazing how many ways you can make espresso?
reasoning with customers has become fun, actually. they seem to dig that everything is measured based on what coffees we use. i generally start with explaining how cappuccinos are regulated by the italian government at just about 5.5 ounces, and thats what we like to serve. i also talk about ratios, how cappuccino is 1/6 espresso and 5/6 milk, and this seems to grab their attention. then i go on and say how a 12 oz. latte is the same amount of espresso, with double the milk! this seems to work =]

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