Tags:
1st Joseph,
Thanks for that, I knew there was something I was missing. The sealed plastic insert/inner makes perfect sense. Any idea where I might find these? You're not referring to the standard Kraft paper bags are you? (http://www.stockbagdepot.com/green-products/tin-tie-pla-liner/)
Brian, this brings up a related issue. How long is it permissible for coffee to be exposed to oxygen. I know that the initial degassing of cO2 is going to function as a temporary barrier, and, that the length of this period will differ according to the bean. However, I feel as though by not doing the best one can to ensure complete protection one might run the risk of leaving the door just a little bit ajar and as a result jeopardize freshness......I am torn because for environmental reasons like you I love the idea of the Kraft bag, I just am not happy with the protection it offers. I know there are companies out there looking at ways to find a nice balance between protection and environmental footprint (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/07/larrys-beans-biodegradable-...) but it's all pretty new technology, and they require too large an order than I can handle.
2nd Joseph,
I love the can idea. That's what I use for my beans at home. This is probably the avenue that I'll end up going down as it offers great protection and so freshness, as well as reducing waste all at the same time encouraging the customer to take ownership of part of the process, both financially and otherwise. What is the name of your coffee school in VT?
Kraft paper is not a solution. I don't know of any Kraft product that does not pass o2.
I use the foil valve and a commercial sealer. True, I do have to purchase the foil bags in quantity. A bit spendy if you don't have the volume yet. As far as I know the foil bag is the only practical solution offering at least 3 months protection. There is much debate going on with how long the protection is for roasted bagged coffee whole bean so don't quote me here. I can say that I will from personal experience assure my customers 3 months in the foil bag that I seal up.
Cheers,
Joe
Pangi said:1st Joseph,
Thanks for that, I knew there was something I was missing. The sealed plastic insert/inner makes perfect sense. Any idea where I might find these? You're not referring to the standard Kraft paper bags are you? (http://www.stockbagdepot.com/green-products/tin-tie-pla-liner/)
Brian, this brings up a related issue. How long is it permissible for coffee to be exposed to oxygen. I know that the initial degassing of cO2 is going to function as a temporary barrier, and, that the length of this period will differ according to the bean. However, I feel as though by not doing the best one can to ensure complete protection one might run the risk of leaving the door just a little bit ajar and as a result jeopardize freshness......I am torn because for environmental reasons like you I love the idea of the Kraft bag, I just am not happy with the protection it offers. I know there are companies out there looking at ways to find a nice balance between protection and environmental footprint (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/07/larrys-beans-biodegradable-...) but it's all pretty new technology, and they require too large an order than I can handle.
2nd Joseph,
I love the can idea. That's what I use for my beans at home. This is probably the avenue that I'll end up going down as it offers great protection and so freshness, as well as reducing waste all at the same time encouraging the customer to take ownership of part of the process, both financially and otherwise. What is the name of your coffee school in VT?
I use the foil bags too and have purchased in large quantities. They are the best for me at the mo, although as I said the tin cans are on the cards. They won't suit every situation though.
Coffee stored for three months? It'll be stale by then won't it?
Personally, I give it 14 days "shelf life" and then won't sell it after that, bean dependent of course.
Brian, this brings up a related issue. How long is it permissible for coffee to be exposed to oxygen. I know that the initial degassing of cO2 is going to function as a temporary barrier, and, that the length of this period will differ according to the bean. However, I feel as though by not doing the best one can to ensure complete protection one might run the risk of leaving the door just a little bit ajar and as a result jeopardize freshness......I am torn because for environmental reasons like you I love the idea of the Kraft bag, I just am not happy with the protection it offers. I know there are companies out there looking at ways to find a nice balance between protection and environmental footprint (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/07/larrys-beans-biodegradable-...) but it's all pretty new technology, and they require too large an order than I can handle
Hard to go stale if o2 is not present. Much research is being done on this as to what is best, like , foil with valve, tin can with valve, the quality of the valve is the key here. I was taught in the school mentioned to bag or can with in 15 minutes to trap as much off gassing "cO2 as possible.
All the cupping we did at school did not give me the chance to taste stale. It would have been good to cup stale and have him, "Mane'" say now that is stale after 1 month, 2 weeks, or what ever time bagged in foil or can. My foil bags stay puffed up with co2 for three months or more indicating the valve is still working. And as of yet I can't taste a stale taste when opened at that date. Now you know why very few roasters put a roast date on there bags of coffee in the markets. You are starting to see it more here on the west coast of the US. I put the roast date on ours. It is a double edge sword because the GP, general public does not know what we know about freshness and longevity of coffee beans stored and sealed in a cO2 purged container. If you get a chance ask Mané Alves from
http://www.coffeelab.com/level.itml/icOid/5
these questions you have about freshness and storage and longevity tell him Joe and Linda from www.jolindas.com sent you. He is considered one of the top people in the industry today.
Pangi said:I use the foil bags too and have purchased in large quantities. They are the best for me at the mo, although as I said the tin cans are on the cards. They won't suit every situation though.
Coffee stored for three months? It'll be stale by then won't it?
Personally, I give it 14 days "shelf life" and then won't sell it after that, bean dependent of course.
Hey Joseph,
Good to see the roast date starting to catch on. I would never buy from a roaster that didn't.
I accept that a bag environment void of o2 is going to slow down the decomposition process but surely it can't halt it because there's a chemical process going on that will naturally and eventually occur regardless of the environment (decomposition).
I can't accept that bags completely void of O2 would slow the process so much so as to retain freshness for 3 months, but this is all abstract thought and conjecture for me. I am yet to test it out. I am no doubt also influenced by the popular belief that 15 days is about the max period for a bean before it becomes a been.
Joseph Robertson said:Hard to go stale if o2 is not present. Much research is being done on this as to what is best, like , foil with valve, tin can with valve, the quality of the valve is the key here. I was taught in the school mentioned to bag or can with in 15 minutes to trap as much off gassing "cO2 as possible.
All the cupping we did at school did not give me the chance to taste stale. It would have been good to cup stale and have him, "Mane'" say now that is stale after 1 month, 2 weeks, or what ever time bagged in foil or can. My foil bags stay puffed up with co2 for three months or more indicating the valve is still working. And as of yet I can't taste a stale taste when opened at that date. Now you know why very few roasters put a roast date on there bags of coffee in the markets. You are starting to see it more here on the west coast of the US. I put the roast date on ours. It is a double edge sword because the GP, general public does not know what we know about freshness and longevity of coffee beans stored and sealed in a cO2 purged container. If you get a chance ask Mané Alves from
http://www.coffeelab.com/level.itml/icOid/5
these questions you have about freshness and storage and longevity tell him Joe and Linda from www.jolindas.com sent you. He is considered one of the top people in the industry today.
Pangi said:I use the foil bags too and have purchased in large quantities. They are the best for me at the mo, although as I said the tin cans are on the cards. They won't suit every situation though.
Coffee stored for three months? It'll be stale by then won't it?
Personally, I give it 14 days "shelf life" and then won't sell it after that, bean dependent of course.
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