ASCAP fees...how do you deal with them?
Thanks in advance for any info on this item.....i own a small coffee shop, Eugene Coffee Company and have been hounded by ascap to pay the 300-$400 annual fee to play cd's in my shop. I have consulted my attorney and yes, i have to pay it if i am to comply. I have no problem with the thinking behind ascap and others like them and by all means want the royalties to go to the artists BUT i am guessing the artists get very little of the $ but that is beside the point.
My question, do any of you use a radio type program that is inexpensive, or free such as Pandora, Satellite??? Ideas? Thanks Ya'll!
Sue
My question, do any of you use a radio type program that is inexpensive, or free such as Pandora, Satellite??? Ideas? Thanks Ya'll!
Sue
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by eric on
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Hi guys,
We installed "muzak" it's a satellite systems that has 100's of stations with no commercials and it includes ascap types license , we pay 70.00 a month for
the service, which includes amp, dish, receiver and bose speakers. I think they have cheaper sets if you want. When you talk with the rep, ask them to wave the install fees. It is kinda expensive but its
a nice clean way to get a great sounding system, you also do not have 200 cds laying around.
this doesn't help those that host live music.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Williams on
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In defence of ASCAP re: artist royalties
I've worked in the music industry for close to a decade, and before ASCAP et al was able to charge transmission fees, the artists recieved no royalties for their music being played out in clubs and concert venues unless it was them on the stage. Now, in the UK, the promoters keep a track list of all songs throughout the night, including what CD's are played before the lights go down, and submit those listing to ASCAP. ASCAP then distributes a royalty to those artists..
Now heres where the magic happens: Some smaller producers with only low-budget releases on their own digital lables started getting checks from ASCAP every so often. Touring bands selling CD's ended up getting their music played on College Radio or as filler tracks between sets, which would have otherwise gone unnoticed, are now being recognized for their work. A welcome gift to any musician!!!
You can avoid paying the fee for as long as you can.. thats fine. But once you are on board, encourage ALL bands, DJ's, etc. that perform to file their music with ASCAP and keep set-lists throughout the night so you can submit them to ASCAP on their behalf. Even cover songs get recognition.
It does end up to be more work for you, but you are doing good by doing it.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on
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Brian,
Thanks for the fine print on this subject. As a Cafe owner I'm working with local artists who have published CD's but I know they don't have this information. I will pass this on to them.
Joe Robertson
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http://www.ascap.com/about/howjoin.asp
they've got the choice though between ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC. When they write a new song, they need to be sure to send a copy to the ASCAP member services AND the Libraray of Congress Copywrite Office and follow up every so often to verify they have been added to the correct musician/band.
If you're signed up w/ ASCAP, BMI or SESAC, and your music gets play in the UK, PRS (UK version of ASCAP) will reciprocally collect your royalties on your behalf with any listings they have on record. the upside: no joining PRS (which costs $$) and if you're late getting on the bus, it'll come back to you... downside is it takes up to a year for the registeration to go through.
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Yes, right or wrong it is the law. It is explained pretty well in this thread. Now it is possible to change the law. Not easy but it is possible. I have no interest either way. Other than the fact that like you I own a cafe / shop and don't want to get busted,
regards, Joe
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Not for the cd's you own but every time you play them. Which I suspect is what you meant. Or if you every intend on playing them. But there is an alternative. Have you ever been in a grocery store and heard music playing. I think they have a cable service subscribtion. ASCAP I believe is covered by the cable company so you can play and music that comes with the hook up. Bry? if you read this, do you know if this is the case with cable companys?
Joe
Margo R said:Excuse me, they want you to pay them, for CD's that you own, in your own shop?? Do I have this correct??
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Margo.. you bring up a good point.. and there is a loop-hole ... As long as you are playing music for YOU and not your customers, you're ok... but that means that you cant have speakers hooked up beyond your station or in other ways catering to your patrons. The law was intended to collect royalties based on commercial entertainment.
And I <3 Eugene too.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on
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Brady is correct. And there's no way you can avoid them. They will find you and destroy you. They are like the mafia. Suck it up and pay it, or use radio like Brady, or internet radio, Pandora....
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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Brian, glad to hear that this is how it works in the UK. Sounds like a great system that really benefits the artists. However, it doesn't work that way in the US... at least not for cafes.
Royalties in the US are paid out according to how often the artists' compositions are played on a sample of radio stations. The PRO's do not disclose which radio stations are sampled, however it would obviously bias all pop artists and pretty much bypass any artists operating at the fringes - which is usually who we in coffeehouses are preferring. So NONE of the licensing fees that a small cafe would pay would go to the artists they were hiring to play.
That's not to say that I feel that outfits like ASCAP, etc are always bad for musicians. I know several artists that get checks from them when their music is used in films. However, the actions of some of their reps to attempt to collect in cases where there is no cause, and the threats that come along with saying "no thanks", do not benefit the small independent musicians. Its just a situation of a good idea gone wrong, done in by greed.
It is too bad. Maybe the US can get to a situation more like you describe in the future.
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Margo, yes, that's what we are saying.
By law, composers must be compensated any time their works are performed publicly. This is fair, right? They wrote it, people use it, they get paid.
When you bought your cds and mp3s you only paid for the right to listen to them yourself. The composer was compensated accordingly. When the FM radio station plays a song on the air, they pay the composer, through ASCAP, etc. in a way that the parties have agreed is fair for the public performance of their work. Same with satellite radio, Muzac, etc.
So, if a shop plays radio, etc, the composers are being paid by the station that you are playing. If you play CDs, they are not being compensated at all.
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Permalink Reply by dan wandzel on
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so pandora is or isn't a safe way to play music?
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From http://www.pandora.com/legal/ ...
"Pandora is for personal use only, that means you can't play Pandora for the patrons in your bar, coffee shop, etc."
If you have questions about other specific streaming services, a quick check of their terms of use should answer them.
On that note, a quick look over the material on the ASCAP, BMI, etc, websites is also time well spent.
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