Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on November 11, 2009 at 2:13pm

I am totally on the same page with you with your last comment. When it comes to the "ideal bag for roasted beans" though, I find that it is totally dependent on what the customer is going to do with it. If it is going to be used up with in a few days the container ,(paper or what ever) won't matter too much. I know of a few who go to the (extreme in my mind) of vacuum packing and freezing roasted beans. Ya, I guess this slow most decay wayyyyyy down. Coffee for me is best consumed as soon as possible in fact this my be my new motto or part of my commercial label on my bags. "Please do not store this coffee more than 5 days."
And especially do not refrigerate or freeze this. Cold storage is another topic all together.
Thanks Pangi for the lively discussion....
Joe

Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on November 11, 2009 at 2:25pm

Stale taste is a many splendid thing. In my experience an espresso roast will improve from 2 to 10 days out depending on the roast and bean used. My question is about this rest phase. If you know it improves as it sits or rests, should it sit or rest in a paper bag, jar, foil bag, spro grinder hopper? How does the resting vessel affect this "taste improvement that is known to take place?"
Questions, so many coffee questions I have...
Joe

Permalink Reply by Pangi on November 11, 2009 at 8:23pm

Hey Joseph,
I have more to add but it's late. Incidentally, where do I get the apparatus that will flush with nitrogen, or remove the O2 from the bag? any ideas?

Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on November 12, 2009 at 1:11pm

Pangi,
I don't know of this unit. I'm sure they exist but have not seen one in use or run into another commercial operation that is using one. I hope you have a consider amount of spare change. I have heard these systems are expensive and designed for high volumn commercial applications. We depend on sealing in foil bags with a one way valve within 15min. of cooling to use the natural gassing of Co2 to push out the 02 and create an envelope of C02 for protection. I can tell when it is working well. Our foil bags on the shelves are puffed up with C02. I'm sure you have seen them on shelves. At least I hope you have. It's a good indicator of the seal.
Cheers,
Joe

Permalink Reply by Pangi on January 6, 2010 at 2:08pm

Hi Joseph, Great discussion, thanks.

One question that I still have hovering around is whether to remove the co2 from the bag. Some degas with bags open and rely on the outgoing c02 to act as a barrier for the o2. The thinking here I assume is to leave the bag open so as not to let the c02 spoil the coffee and make it all gassy. Because O2 is an crafty, evil and not to be trusted devil I bag and seal straight after the roast. If however the open baggers are right, by sealing immediately post-roast I'm trapping the c02 in with the beans and possibly doing as much damage O2 might.

If however I vacuum the cO2 out am I running the risk of removing the bean "fragrance" and hence possibly taste?

If I'm bagging straight away, to vacuum/suck/push out air or not? What is your practice?
Thanks

Joseph Robertson said:

Pangi,
I don't know of this unit. I'm sure they exist but have not seen one in use or run into another commercial operation that is using one. I hope you have a consider amount of spare change. I have heard these systems are expensive and designed for high volumn commercial applications. We depend on sealing in foil bags with a one way valve within 15min. of cooling to use the natural gassing of Co2 to push out the 02 and create an envelope of C02 for protection. I can tell when it is working well. Our foil bags on the shelves are puffed up with C02. I'm sure you have seen them on shelves. At least I hope you have. It's a good indicator of the seal.
Cheers,
Joe

Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on January 6, 2010 at 2:21pm

Pangi,
As I learned from my training at, http://www.coffeelab.com/ from my instructor, Mane', the Co2 has no detrimental effect on roasted coffee. As far as I know it has no recordable affect at all. If any one on this list can send or post documentation contrary to this please educate me. It is only being used to prevent 02 from degrading the beans. As to my bagging and sealing technique, I do squeeze out all 02 as much as I can before I seal the foil bag. I get it so tight that it looks sort of like a vac packed bag of beans when I seal it. By doing this you will NOT remove any fragrance. The fragrance will continue to develop as the coffee ages and flavor profile will actually improve over the next few days. But that is another topic.
Joseph
By the way you can email Mane' at the school and tell him Joe with Jolinda's said you might answer a simple question you have. I'm sure he would Pangi.
--
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
.

Pangi said:

Hi Joseph, Great discussion, thanks.

One question that I still have hovering around is whether to remove the co2 from the bag. Some degas with bags open and rely on the outgoing c02 to act as a barrier for the o2. The thinking here I assume is to leave the bag open so as not to let the c02 spoil the coffee and make it all gassy. Because O2 is an crafty, evil and not to be trusted devil I bag and seal straight after the roast. If however the open baggers are right, by sealing immediately post-roast I'm trapping the c02 in with the beans and possibly doing as much damage O2 might.

If however I vacuum the cO2 out am I running the risk of removing the bean "fragrance" and hence possibly taste?

If I'm bagging straight away, to vacuum/suck/push out air or not? What is your practice?
Thanks

Joseph Robertson said:

Pangi,
I don't know of this unit. I'm sure they exist but have not seen one in use or run into another commercial operation that is using one. I hope you have a consider amount of spare change. I have heard these systems are expensive and designed for high volumn commercial applications. We depend on sealing in foil bags with a one way valve within 15min. of cooling to use the natural gassing of Co2 to push out the 02 and create an envelope of C02 for protection. I can tell when it is working well. Our foil bags on the shelves are puffed up with C02. I'm sure you have seen them on shelves. At least I hope you have. It's a good indicator of the seal.
Cheers,
Joe

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page