Bunn Trifecta Single Cup Debut
Hi.
We have had the privilege of rolling out one of these with our customer, Pi - Central West End of St. Louis. It is a new cafe. Alex Brooks is a home grown STL barista who did a short stint in P-town for the last 6 months. Pi called him back to run shop. We are very thankful that Bunn put this in our hands to start the research process and create some buzz about it. We are also confident that Alex will do diligence. Matt Herren is the roaster and is sure this will provide new opportunities for the specialty coffee community.
Goshen Coffee was part of the secret about the new Bunn Trifecta Machine. We kept it on the low-down but now the cat is out of the bag. New York Times, Diner’s Journal writer Oliver Strand, just cut this thing wide open in his post, The Trifecta Comes to Town.
So, we created a video of the little gem and put it out there for the coffee community to see. As far as we know, it is the first internet video of this machine. Trifecta Video Debut. Hope to do more videos and document our findings.
Alex has been documenting the variables and using Goshen Coffee to test it out. We feel real Good about the results to start. We are pretty tuned into how our roasts should taste. This thing makes it even more exciting to cup. Customers are loving the experience and enjoying the product it produces.
Have you heard of this machine? Much like the Clover.
What are your thoughts?
Goshen Coffee was part of the secret about the new Bunn Trifecta Machine. We kept it on the low-down but now the cat is out of the bag. New York Times, Diner’s Journal writer Oliver Strand, just cut this thing wide open in his post, The Trifecta Comes to Town.
So, we created a video of the little gem and put it out there for the coffee community to see. As far as we know, it is the first internet video of this machine. Trifecta Video Debut. Hope to do more videos and document our findings.
Alex has been documenting the variables and using Goshen Coffee to test it out. We feel real Good about the results to start. We are pretty tuned into how our roasts should taste. This thing makes it even more exciting to cup. Customers are loving the experience and enjoying the product it produces.
Have you heard of this machine? Much like the Clover.
What are your thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Sabol on
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Bill,
I'm glad you are excited about being a part of Bunn's new product roll out.
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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There's been a buzz building about the Trifecta for a spell now though nothing tangible until these recent events. Bunn is still keeping it tight lipped. Search the Bunn sight for Trifecta and no hits!
Thoughts? Bunn has a reputation for solidly built relatively affordable coffee equipement. Have no idea what kind of price point it'll be at but doubt it'll be ridiculously priced $10k range like the Clover was. Love the way it's being introduced, not via some Giant like Charbucks but smaller quality Indy shops. Smart move IMO. Now bring it in affordably and you'll see many Indies not buying one, but multiple units for our single cup brew operations already in place.
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Mike - I have to disagree with you about Bunn's reputation. I've been a tech for years and I hate working on Bunn equipment. I think it's poorly made, the electronics are poorly protected, and oftentimes the unit is simply poorly thought out. Like a french press grinder that won't do a grind any courser than drip or an under powered grinder motor fitted with an un-resetable thermal breaker. Or coffee brewer thermostats that won't go any higher than 195. Or coffee/tea brewers with no safety circuit that will turn the heaters on as soon as the unit is plugged in. The list is endless. I will agree that Bunn equipment is cheaper.
The other question you have to ask yourself is how much better will a unit like this(or even a Clover) be than a Clever Dripper or a Harrio cone station. It looks like the units will sell for $2800. Will they really be $2780 better/faster/easier than a Mellita? The chemistry of coffee is what it is. It takes four minutes to properly extract the grounds when the water isn't under pressure. I'm not sure the minimal vacuum the Trifecta uses counts and it sounds like the cycle time is only 1:30. I bet it's leaving a lot of the good stuff untouched.
And for practicality just imagine you have a line out the door in the morning and everybody wants espresso or coffee. How fast are you going to move that line by brewing one cup at a time? That's really the same issue that sank Clover. You can't run a busy morning coffee business one cup at a time. Especially when it will require some baby sitting by one of your employees. That's either one more person you have to staff just to run that machine or one more process that your already busy morning crew has to absorb. Clover isn't working at Starbucks for just that reason.
It does have glowing blue lights. I'll give it that. But since it is made by Bunn I'm sure the transformer has been placed where water can get to it so the blue lights will short out in the first month of use.
I bet it turns out to be a gadgety gadget thing with burbally bubbles and flashing lights and actually doesn't add anything to the art, science or business of brewing coffee.
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Permalink Reply by Chris/Dale on
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oh curiosity has got me ...
If I cold make one small point, Pi is not a cafe... it's a higher end restaurant/ bar that does pizza featuring a corn meal deep dish style crust. there are three locations in St Louis. I've only heard great things about the new location ( regarding the pie and the cocktails) and have been meaning to make it down there.
Since I only live about 5 minutes away I suppose I'ma have to go and have a cup tomorrow, aye?
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Permalink Reply by Bill Klingensmith on
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Mike,
All your Points are well taken. We have lots of bunn equip in our customers shops. It is a great experiment to see what this equipment will do. Someone has to do it. We are giving it a fair shake and objectively reviewing it.
We are glad to have been tapped to take it for the spin.
Chris/Dale... Agreed. This is the replacement of Companion. Cafe/Pizzeria just doesn't roll off the tongue as easy. So, Mike. No lines out the door... yet. Open in the morning for Coffee and Pastries by 222 Bakery to fill the space left behind.
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Permalink Reply by Alex Brooks on
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Mike, when is the last time you attempted to man a by the cup coffee program (four minute extraction times) and kept the customers from stacking up? And, out of curiosity, how often do you speak about things you've yet to touch? See? Taste? No personal attack, just two things that popped into my head. Those questions have been popping into my head a LOT since getting my hands on this machine. Mostly because of the completely unfounded (read: inexperienced) bashing this machine is getting. I get it, I'm a fairly cynical guy myself. Funny little creatures we humans are.
I'm no tech, but I have spent a fair amount of time around all different kinds of coffee equipment. Never had issues that stemmed from faulty manufacturing, poor design, or anything of the like with Bunn equipment. I do know that you are to fill the boilers (all Bunn products I've worked with) BEFORE you plug it in, no safety circuit required, granted you follow the installation instructions. Makes sense, right? Less things to charge the customer for. Not idiot proof, but these things are to be installed by "Professionals". Funny how many "Techs" feel they are superior to such petty things. I'm definitely one of the guys that throws the manual away, only to have to go dig it out of the trash later. Foolish pride.
Full disclosure: I'm the hotshot knowitall barista that thinks he's technically inclined (hopefully, on some level, thats true). Rarely would/do I let a call out for a tech before I get my hands on whatever it was that was broken/out of whack. To date, I've only flipped polarity on a switch once... that was exciting. Thankfully, thats the extent of damage done. Clearly, you have more experience than me in the tech field. I do feel you're speaking awfully harshly about a company that clearly represents a quality product. Whether or not you like the way they are designed is a subjective matter. There's not a coffee equipment company out there, with a few exceptions, with equipment offerings that just make us specialty folks crazy. Bunn, Fetco, Marzocco, Mazzer, that list is endless. The equipment does what it is designed to do. Unfortunately, the world doesn't revolve around our tiny little market. Fortunately, really. Gives ideas a reason to turn into upstarts. More players, more innovation.
The Clever and the Hario drippers are completely different brewers. First, paper. Second, in the hario's case, there is a pretty steep learning curve for the FNG's. 3rd, paper. 4th, no super white led's. No where near as cool.
The Clover has obvious flaws. It does try to cheat chemistry. Little to no agitation means super up-dosed, super under-developed cups. In 90s. I've had some alright coffee from them, but I'm certainly no fan.
Espresso, generally speaking, is brewed in less than 45s - thought that would put things in perspective. Pressure makes that possible. Along with grind size.
The Trifecta addresses this. With automated, repeatable, adjustable agitation. I have had some great coffee off of it. Technically correct even (Refractometers n' such). In 90s. When you get yours, or visit a shop, try an agitation rhythm like 6 on, 15 off. Intensity around 6. You can adjust the cycle for as long as you like. 30s? sure. 180? sure. Whatever you want. There is no vacuum. It builds a small amount of air pressure to push the coffee out of the brewing chamber.
There are a few other things I'd like to address, but, I've got a cafe to run in the am. Another day in paradise!
cheers,
Alex
p.s. Generally speaking, I quite enjoy sarcasm. So please, Mike, lay it on thick.
p.p.s.
Chris/Dale,
Have you come by yet? Make sure to introduce yourself.
Mike Sabol said:Mike - I have to disagree with you about Bunn's reputation. I've been a tech for years and I hate working on Bunn equipment. I think it's poorly made, the electronics are poorly protected, and oftentimes the unit is simply poorly thought out. Like a french press grinder that won't do a grind any courser than drip or an under powered grinder motor fitted with an un-resetable thermal breaker. Or coffee brewer thermostats that won't go any higher than 195. Or coffee/tea brewers with no safety circuit that will turn the heaters on as soon as the unit is plugged in. The list is endless. I will agree that Bunn equipment is cheaper.
The other question you have to ask yourself is how much better will a unit like this(or even a Clover) be than a Clever Dripper or a Harrio cone station. It looks like the units will sell for $2800. Will they really be $2780 better/faster/easier than a Mellita? The chemistry of coffee is what it is. It takes four minutes to properly extract the grounds when the water isn't under pressure. I'm not sure the minimal vacuum the Trifecta uses counts and it sounds like the cycle time is only 1:30. I bet it's leaving a lot of the good stuff untouched. And for practicality just imagine you have a line out the door in the morning and everybody wants espresso or coffee. How fast are you going to move that line by brewing one cup at a time? That's really the same issue that sank Clover. You can't run a busy morning coffee business one cup at a time. Especially when it will require some baby sitting by one of your employees. That's either one more person you have to staff just to run that machine or one more process that your already busy morning crew has to absorb. Clover isn't working at Starbucks for just that reason.
It does have glowing blue lights. I'll give it that. But since it is made by Bunn I'm sure the transformer has been placed where water can get to it so the blue lights will short out in the first month of use.
I bet it turns out to be a gadgety gadget thing with burbally bubbles and flashing lights and actually doesn't add anything to the art, science or business of brewing coffee.
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Alex,
I've been by once in the last month , but it was around 11:45 ( missed it by that much) had to settle for house brewed coffee and a mission (sub prosciutto for anchovies) which was pretty fantastic.
I'll for sure swing by again in the next few days. My extreme laziness makes it hard for me to get out of bed on my days off... but i would wager it's worth it..
cheers
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Permalink Reply by Brendon Parsons on
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Hey, does anyone know which "San Francisco Cafe" will receive the Trifecta (as mentioned in the NY Times article)? I live in South Florida (so no coffee shops locally) but will be attending an ACS Meeting in San Francisco March 19-23. Would love to see the Trifecta in person if it is actually going to be making an appearance in San Francisco.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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Alex Brooks said lots of stuff, including:...Those questions have been popping into my head a LOT since getting my hands on this machine. Mostly because of the completely unfounded (read: inexperienced) bashing this machine is getting. I get it, I'm a fairly cynical guy myself. Funny little creatures we humans are.
I'm no tech, but I have spent a fair amount of time around all different kinds of coffee equipment. Never had issues that stemmed from faulty manufacturing, poor design, or anything of the like with Bunn equipment...
Mike Sabol said more stuff, like:Mike - I have to disagree with you about Bunn's reputation. I've been a tech for years and I hate working on Bunn equipment. I think it's poorly made, the electronics are poorly protected, and oftentimes the unit is simply poorly thought out...
Alex, glad to hear your experiences with this machine have been positive. Keep the info coming, lots of curious people here.
For the record, I do think that if you'd ask around you'd find lots of long-time professional techs that agree with Mike on Bunn products in general. I don't think it's unreasonable to be skeptical of serviceability and build quality based on past actual experience with a manufacturer's products. We do it with auto companies and other products all the time...
Remember too that most techs service equipment from a variety of manufacturers, so there is a pretty good basis for comparison.
Don't get me wrong, I've had good experiences with Bunn gear at our cafe and happily recommend many of their products... but some of my worst service nightmares have been working on Bunn brewers.
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Hi Alex. Thanks for the feedback.
I'll start off by owning up to the extremeness of my first reaction. It was a little over the top. And I think my real views on Bunn's Bubbler are a bit more tame but no less skeptical.
I also don't want to turn this into some kind of flame war regarding Bunn and their products. Bunn has been in business for a long time and is obviously doing something right. I have worked on many Bunn brewers that have worked as advertised for years without issue as I think can be evidenced by the many stained and dented pour over, glass decanter brewers still in service all over the country. I would never try to take that success away from Bunn.
Back in the day, the mid-90's that is, a guy named Jeff Hawkins was developing the Palm OS. You know, for PDA's. He had an occams razor in the development process which was "Is this faster than paper?" He did not see his compitition as other gadgets but rather the plain old pad of yellow legal paper all of us still use. By having that kind of perspective he was able to create a truly revolutionalry product. Bunn, and anybody who is developing equipment, is in a similar position. So I ask myself "Is The Bubbler better than pour over?" and I don't get a clear answer. I ask "Is this better than an old 52 that's been dialed in?" And again I don't get a clear answer.
I cannot argue "coolness". But you have to ask yourself when Bunn wants their Bubbler back are you going to give them $2800 to keep it? That's a lot of money to a small cafe. Do you have it just sitting around? And how fast will the Bubbler pay off?
As I said before. I am skeptical but my mind is not made up. I love a good supprise.
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Let's also remember that part of the purpose of pre-production field testing is fine-tuning the marketing approach, pricing structure, and final product configuration. Saying "this product is great and I love it" may make people at the manufacturer happy, but it really doesn't help them very much. When it comes time for them to sell the machine to owners, they'll be met with the same criticism, skepticism, and ROI questions that you are seeing here. It'd be nice if they were prepared with good answers for these concerns. "You never get a second chance to make a first impression". Marketing and design tweaks are a lot easier now than they will be halfway through the rollout.
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Good, point. Brady. Good point. This would be espesially true if part of the marketing strategy were to make use of social networking websites and "grassroots" word of mouth.
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