Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ali Hojeij on October 5, 2009 at 4:46am

hi.

To adjust your grinder you need to have a scale, 7g scoop. put the 7g scoop on where the ground coffee come from, let it pour to the scoop and. use the double shot portafilter and put to 7g scoop and try to start extraction, the right shot should be 30ml in 20 sec, if it is too fast that means the grind is course, if it too slow means the grind is soft, here you work on the grinder by turning the adgusment ring until you get the right measure.
it is important for us to know what kind of grider you have to help more.

Single shut =7g
Double=14g

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Permalink Reply by Justin Holinka on October 7, 2009 at 1:43pm

I see some really great responses here, but am slightly worried at how strict some of you are with your dosing--i.e. claiming an absolute weight for singles and doubles. One thing that is extremely important to keep in mind is that every espresso acts differently than every other espresso; and every espresso acts differently depending how long has passed since roasting. It is important to be consistent, but that consistency should be with the espresso used on that day. When the espresso changes, we, as baristas, must change along with it.

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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on October 7, 2009 at 6:56pm

Justin Holinka said:

I see some really great responses here, but am slightly worried at how strict some of you are with your dosing--i.e. claiming an absolute weight for singles and doubles. One thing that is extremely important to keep in mind is that every espresso acts differently than every other espresso; and every espresso acts differently depending how long has passed since roasting. It is important to be consistent, but that consistency should be with the espresso used on that day. When the espresso changes, we, as baristas, must change along with it.

Absolutely agree. 7g for a single and 14g for a double are suggested starting dial in doses and any where from 20 to 30sec suggested dial in target times. (Not varying 10sec shot to shot of course) To think ALL espresso double shots should always be 14g 20sec is absurd. My Delirium Blend usually is best pulled 16 to 17g 28-30sec. Today was 16.5g 30sec...

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Permalink Reply by Chris Cockrell on March 12, 2010 at 6:09am

I agree with the good advice and technique of Mr. Suekoff. In order to "KNOW" you must create a pattern, execute it, taste, adjust, repeat until it is repeatable by you and staff. Of course this is the best way to find out what tastes good to "YOU". Others that taste your espresso may like it, or may not. I battle with this a lot. The way I like coffee is not necessarily your way. Ryan touches on most of the rest of the variables. So, I guess the answer is to set up your own way, your own taste, and your own presentation and open your doors and share. My $.02

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on March 12, 2010 at 7:46am

18gr. goes better with my tie. =))

miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:

Besides taste, what else is there?

Daniel Williamson said:

Thanks for your help guys. But what is the BENEFIT of adjusting levels??? Is it just that some espressos taste better at certain dosages, or is it something more than that?

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Permalink Reply by Greg Hill on March 12, 2010 at 12:44pm

a scoop is unreliable as a method for measuring mass. volume, ie a scoop, has nothing to do with how much coffee you are using by weight...

also remember that the italians with robusta blends and 1oz shots established 7g as a standard for them... SO first wave lol.



Ali Hojeij said:

hi.

To adjust your grinder you need to have a scale, 7g scoop. put the 7g scoop on where the ground coffee come from, let it pour to the scoop and. use the double shot portafilter and put to 7g scoop and try to start extraction, the right shot should be 30ml in 20 sec, if it is too fast that means the grind is course, if it too slow means the grind is soft, here you work on the grinder by turning the adgusment ring until you get the right measure.
it is important for us to know what kind of grider you have to help more.

Single shut =7g
Double=14g

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Permalink Reply by Greg Hill on March 12, 2010 at 1:08pm

welcome to the wonderfully volatile world of espresso!

Ricky Sutton said:

I'm surprised at how many responses here essentially say "experiment a lot, find a system that works and stick with it". Were i to say "ok, what tastes best with this coffee is a 19gr. dose, pulling 1.5 oz. in 24 seconds" my coffee would taste great one day, then maybe not so great the next. Am i just working with a particularly finicky coffee or do people really believe that a method can be set in stone?

One of the opening tasks at my store is to pull a shot at the parameters described above and taste it. At least 50% of the time, it's not good. What's wrong with it determines how they adjust those parameters. My dose could vary from 18gr. to 21gr., my volume could vary from 1 oz. to 2, my shot time from 21 seconds to 27, all depending on what tastes good that day. And the difference could be between it tasting like cherry pie or like a rubber covered copper penny. My coffee likes to be treated quite differently from day to day and from batch to batch. Unless you're using a very simple 2-3 bean blend with not much complexity or dynamics, this seems to be the only way to wrangle those great shots.

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Permalink Reply by Daniel Williamson on March 12, 2010 at 1:18pm

something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).

Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?

It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I should be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true.

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Permalink Reply by Greg Hill on March 12, 2010 at 1:46pm

are you using a semi auto machine? because the board will only run a preset amount of cold water through the flowmeter into the heat exchanger. more coffee absorbs more water. i almost always use the manual button and nail a particular volume, especially when experimenting. too many variables changing at once makes it a lot more difficult to dial in your preferred settings.

Daniel Williamson said:

something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).

Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?

It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I should be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true.

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Permalink Reply by Daniel Williamson on March 12, 2010 at 1:54pm

semi-auto linea
Greg Hill said:

are you using a semi auto machine? because the board will only run a preset amount of cold water through the flowmeter into the heat exchanger. more coffee absorbs more water. i almost always use the manual button and nail a particular volume, especially when experimenting. too many variables changing at once makes it a lot more difficult to dial in your preferred settings.

Daniel Williamson said:

something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).

Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?

It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I should be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true.

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Permalink Reply by Greg Hill on March 12, 2010 at 2:11pm

ok, just assume coffee boiler instead of heat exchanger. the machine doesnt care how much coffee you use, its only going to put out a specific amount of water.
if your goal is to compare equal shot volumes with different doses, you gotta use the swirly button instead of just the single (or double), unless youre partial to preinfusion, in which case you can just stop them early or use the manual switch to override the programming after pre (if you have that configuration), run-on sentence ftw.

Daniel Williamson said:

semi-auto linea
Greg Hill said:

are you using a semi auto machine? because the board will only run a preset amount of cold water through the flowmeter into the heat exchanger. more coffee absorbs more water. i almost always use the manual button and nail a particular volume, especially when experimenting. too many variables changing at once makes it a lot more difficult to dial in your preferred settings.

Daniel Williamson said:

something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).

Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?

It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I should be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on March 12, 2010 at 2:55pm

Greg Hill said:

ok, just assume coffee boiler instead of heat exchanger. the machine doesnt care how much coffee you use, its only going to put out a specific amount of water.
if your goal is to compare equal shot volumes with different doses, you gotta use the swirly button instead of just the single (or double), unless youre partial to preinfusion, in which case you can just stop them early or use the manual switch to override the programming after pre (if you have that configuration), run-on sentence ftw.

Daniel Williamson said:

semi-auto linea
Greg Hill said:

are you using a semi auto machine? because the board will only run a preset amount of cold water through the flowmeter into the heat exchanger. more coffee absorbs more water. i almost always use the manual button and nail a particular volume, especially when experimenting. too many variables changing at once makes it a lot more difficult to dial in your preferred settings.

Daniel Williamson said:

something I've come across in my experimenting and talking with other baristas, is this: when I down dose, it seems like I pull longer shots; and conversely, when I dose higher, the shot seems shorter (volume-wise, of course).

Does anyone else (1) agree with this observation or (2) know the reason why that seems to be the case?

It's nice to pull out those different flavors, and sometimes I switch it up based on my mood. I don't necessarily care about the final volume (as taste rules supreme), it's just an enigma to me because it seems logical that the opposite would be true. I mean, if there's more coffee, I should be able to pull more oils and flavor out (translating into more volume), but the facts state the opposite is true.

A Semi-auto Linea only has the equivalent of the "swirly button"... no flowmeters.

Daniel, perhaps you could clarify what you mean. What do you observe?

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