Need some advice in expanding a business...
Hey all-
My wife and i opened a coffeehouse/roaster in a little college town in NY. Our only competition was a coffee house that was well established, but was very low quality. 7 second extractions, permanently cook-on milk on the stream wands, etc.When we opened we heard a lot of positive feedback,and still do. Obviously I'm biased, but we really do have the best coffee in town.
Our spot is very small. VERY. It's in an alright location, and we have the best landlord in town. They have worked with us from day 1, letting us do anything we want to the place, and even dropping the rent to help us when we first opened. (they did this on their own).
The other place has the best place in town and is for sale. The guy is motivate to sell, but I wouldn't be able to relocate my roaster. I would like to grab that place, move the coffee house there, but keep the roasting operation at our current locale. I would keep a coffee brewer at the roastery, but take the espresso machine.
So: Pros for place 1:
already there, great landlord, already established customer base, lower rent
Cons: not best location, limited space for customers/business expansion
Pros for #2
better location, years of established customer base, closer to downtown and where the college kids are, bigger store
cons: higher rent, can't have the roaster there, needs redecorating
What do you all think? What should I be thinking about, looking into, considering? I don't have the numbers for the other business yet, but before I make any decisions, I will.
Thanks
B.
My wife and i opened a coffeehouse/roaster in a little college town in NY. Our only competition was a coffee house that was well established, but was very low quality. 7 second extractions, permanently cook-on milk on the stream wands, etc.When we opened we heard a lot of positive feedback,and still do. Obviously I'm biased, but we really do have the best coffee in town.
Our spot is very small. VERY. It's in an alright location, and we have the best landlord in town. They have worked with us from day 1, letting us do anything we want to the place, and even dropping the rent to help us when we first opened. (they did this on their own).
The other place has the best place in town and is for sale. The guy is motivate to sell, but I wouldn't be able to relocate my roaster. I would like to grab that place, move the coffee house there, but keep the roasting operation at our current locale. I would keep a coffee brewer at the roastery, but take the espresso machine.
So: Pros for place 1:
already there, great landlord, already established customer base, lower rent
Cons: not best location, limited space for customers/business expansion
Pros for #2
better location, years of established customer base, closer to downtown and where the college kids are, bigger store
cons: higher rent, can't have the roaster there, needs redecorating
What do you all think? What should I be thinking about, looking into, considering? I don't have the numbers for the other business yet, but before I make any decisions, I will.
Thanks
B.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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Beyond current customers accustomed to getting espresso at your current roastery location if you're doing or planning on doing any wholesale to other coffeeshops, espresso caterers etc. you will really need an espresso machine there. Even if just a single group. Part of my coffeehouse coffee lab at my roastery location is having 5 espresso grinders (4 plus decaf). My other location only has 1 plus 1 for decaf.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Nostrom on
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You are right, of course. I'll probably have a single group machine at the first location. BTW, why so many grinders?
I should mention that the two locations are within walking distance from each other, maybe 2/10 of a mile. They are located on the main drag, I'm located off a side street. You wouldn't think that would make that big of a difference...
Joe, yes, we do roast ourselves at our site.
miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:Beyond current customers accustomed to getting espresso at your current roastery location if you're doing or planning on doing any wholesale to other coffeeshops, espresso caterers etc. you will really need an espresso machine there. Even if just a single group. Part of my coffeehouse coffee lab at my roastery location is having 5 espresso grinders (4 plus decaf). My other location only has 1 plus 1 for decaf.
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Ah, 4 besides decaf taint so many;) Allows running my main espresso blend, couple SO currently Kenya Kirinyaga and Ethiopia "Kalda Bomb" (2 wp & 2 dp Ethiopias all 4 melange roasted then mixed) espresso plus one free to use for whatever. Testing new blend, new batch, new SO etc.
Man, walking distance apart could make a difference! You'd might want/need to really differentiate their purposes and focus. Maybe keep the focus at the roastery education and exotic stuff while the larger location the "Third Space". Even though my (first) two locations are 10min drive apart, their personalities are different with the roastery coffeehouse location more focused on education and getting to play with more SO espressos of course. Both have extensive brewed to order pour-over & press menus. Haven't added vac's yet but will be. Thought about putting my Ibrik into play too at the roastery but haven't brought it in from home yet (or gotten a heat source). But a simple hotplate would do.
Bill Nostrom said:You are right, of course. I'll probably have a single group machine at the first location. BTW, why so many grinders?
I should mention that the two locations are within walking distance from each other, maybe 2/10 of a mile. They are located on the main drag, I'm located off a side street. You wouldn't think that would make that big of a difference...
Joe, yes, we do roast ourselves at our site.
miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:Beyond current customers accustomed to getting espresso at your current roastery location if you're doing or planning on doing any wholesale to other coffeeshops, espresso caterers etc. you will really need an espresso machine there. Even if just a single group. Part of my coffeehouse coffee lab at my roastery location is having 5 espresso grinders (4 plus decaf). My other location only has 1 plus 1 for decaf.
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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on
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Bill,
nice, but you responded "we do roast ourselves" do you mean you are the roaster or do you have a team that you or someone trained?
Don't get me wrong Bill, I and miKe are roasters so we like to know who we are talking to. MiKe has much or many more hours under his belt roasting then me but we both know who we are and why we do what we do. Roasters are another breed for sure. After the farmer and the dirt the roaster is the next step in the cup that you and I drink.
I like what you are doing. I feel a certain kind ship with you because I am expanding as we speak just like you. I have no resources, just a lot of passion for coffee and the people I make and roast it for. Onward and upward. It's spring and time to blossom and bring forth the best cup of coffee this years crop can afford or provide us who roast this most glorious little bean.
best regards
Joseph
--
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Bill Nostrom said:You are right, of course. I'll probably have a single group machine at the first location. BTW, why so many grinders?
I should mention that the two locations are within walking distance from each other, maybe 2/10 of a mile. They are located on the main drag, I'm located off a side street. You wouldn't think that would make that big of a difference...
Joe, yes, we do roast ourselves at our site.
miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:Beyond current customers accustomed to getting espresso at your current roastery location if you're doing or planning on doing any wholesale to other coffeeshops, espresso caterers etc. you will really need an espresso machine there. Even if just a single group. Part of my coffeehouse coffee lab at my roastery location is having 5 espresso grinders (4 plus decaf). My other location only has 1 plus 1 for decaf.
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Bill,
Watch this guy miKe very close. He DOES know what he is talking about. My shop/business is 50 crow miles away one way but I visit as much as possible to find out how I am doing as to my spro blends. This guy has it together. Tasting for spro is a science in and of itself I have a lot to learn just with that. I have been to coffee fests, taken classes at the SCAA conventions, which by the way I will be doing this year at Anaheim Ca.,
and still miKe's spro does kicks ass. I stop in as often as I can afford to travel 100 crow miles round trip to taste his spro. This very strange guy is on the cutting edge of coffee. Do not expect warm fuzzy's. Mike is not about that. He will tell and sell you the truth when it comes to coffee.
If you ever get a chance to come out this way you really need to stop and chat and test his coffee. I do not work for him, let me repeat this, I do not work for him and god forbid I am not related to him. I love coffee and I love great coffee even more. Some shops are doing it right. His is one. I am and will always be a mentor of his work.
Sincerely,
Just me,
Joseph
--
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:Ah, 4 besides decaf taint so many;) Allows running my main espresso blend, couple SO currently Kenya Kirinyaga and Ethiopia "Kalda Bomb" (2 wp & 2 dp Ethiopias all 4 melange roasted then mixed) espresso plus one free to use for whatever. Testing new blend, new batch, new SO etc.
Man, walking distance apart could make a difference! You'd might want/need to really differentiate their purposes and focus. Maybe keep the focus at the roastery education and exotic stuff while the larger location the "Third Space". Even though my (first) two locations are 10min drive apart, their personalities are different with the roastery coffeehouse location more focused on education and getting to play with more SO espressos of course. Both have extensive brewed to order pour-over & press menus. Haven't added vac's yet but will be. Thought about putting my Ibrik into play too at the roastery but haven't brought it in from home yet (or gotten a heat source). But a simple hotplate would do.
Bill Nostrom said:You are right, of course. I'll probably have a single group machine at the first location. BTW, why so many grinders?
I should mention that the two locations are within walking distance from each other, maybe 2/10 of a mile. They are located on the main drag, I'm located off a side street. You wouldn't think that would make that big of a difference...
Joe, yes, we do roast ourselves at our site.
miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:Beyond current customers accustomed to getting espresso at your current roastery location if you're doing or planning on doing any wholesale to other coffeeshops, espresso caterers etc. you will really need an espresso machine there. Even if just a single group. Part of my coffeehouse coffee lab at my roastery location is having 5 espresso grinders (4 plus decaf). My other location only has 1 plus 1 for decaf.
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Sorry, yes I am the roaster.
Joseph Robertson said:Bill,
nice, but you responded "we do roast ourselves" do you mean you are the roaster or do you have a team that you or someone trained?
Don't get me wrong Bill, I and miKe are roasters so we like to know who we are talking to. MiKe has much or many more hours under his belt roasting then me but we both know who we are and why we do what we do. Roasters are another breed for sure. After the farmer and the dirt the roaster is the next step in the cup that you and I drink.
I like what you are doing. I feel a certain kind ship with you because I am expanding as we speak just like you. I have no resources, just a lot of passion for coffee and the people I make and roast it for. Onward and upward. It's spring and time to blossom and bring forth the best cup of coffee this years crop can afford or provide us who roast this most glorious little bean.
best regards
Joseph
--
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Bill Nostrom said:You are right, of course. I'll probably have a single group machine at the first location. BTW, why so many grinders?
I should mention that the two locations are within walking distance from each other, maybe 2/10 of a mile. They are located on the main drag, I'm located off a side street. You wouldn't think that would make that big of a difference...
Joe, yes, we do roast ourselves at our site.
miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:Beyond current customers accustomed to getting espresso at your current roastery location if you're doing or planning on doing any wholesale to other coffeeshops, espresso caterers etc. you will really need an espresso machine there. Even if just a single group. Part of my coffeehouse coffee lab at my roastery location is having 5 espresso grinders (4 plus decaf). My other location only has 1 plus 1 for decaf.
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Thanks Bill,
I did think you were just was not clear.
Joe
Bill Nostrom said:Sorry, yes I am the roaster.
Joseph Robertson said:Bill,
nice, but you responded "we do roast ourselves" do you mean you are the roaster or do you have a team that you or someone trained?
Don't get me wrong Bill, I and miKe are roasters so we like to know who we are talking to. MiKe has much or many more hours under his belt roasting then me but we both know who we are and why we do what we do. Roasters are another breed for sure. After the farmer and the dirt the roaster is the next step in the cup that you and I drink.
I like what you are doing. I feel a certain kind ship with you because I am expanding as we speak just like you. I have no resources, just a lot of passion for coffee and the people I make and roast it for. Onward and upward. It's spring and time to blossom and bring forth the best cup of coffee this years crop can afford or provide us who roast this most glorious little bean.
best regards
Joseph
--
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform.
Bill Nostrom said:You are right, of course. I'll probably have a single group machine at the first location. BTW, why so many grinders?
I should mention that the two locations are within walking distance from each other, maybe 2/10 of a mile. They are located on the main drag, I'm located off a side street. You wouldn't think that would make that big of a difference...
Joe, yes, we do roast ourselves at our site.
miKe mcKoffee aka Mike McGinness said:Beyond current customers accustomed to getting espresso at your current roastery location if you're doing or planning on doing any wholesale to other coffeeshops, espresso caterers etc. you will really need an espresso machine there. Even if just a single group. Part of my coffeehouse coffee lab at my roastery location is having 5 espresso grinders (4 plus decaf). My other location only has 1 plus 1 for decaf.
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