Bunn Trifecta Single Cup Debut
Hi.
We have had the privilege of rolling out one of these with our customer, Pi - Central West End of St. Louis. It is a new cafe. Alex Brooks is a home grown STL barista who did a short stint in P-town for the last 6 months. Pi called him back to run shop. We are very thankful that Bunn put this in our hands to start the research process and create some buzz about it. We are also confident that Alex will do diligence. Matt Herren is the roaster and is sure this will provide new opportunities for the specialty coffee community.
Goshen Coffee was part of the secret about the new Bunn Trifecta Machine. We kept it on the low-down but now the cat is out of the bag. New York Times, Diner’s Journal writer Oliver Strand, just cut this thing wide open in his post, The Trifecta Comes to Town.
So, we created a video of the little gem and put it out there for the coffee community to see. As far as we know, it is the first internet video of this machine. Trifecta Video Debut. Hope to do more videos and document our findings.
Alex has been documenting the variables and using Goshen Coffee to test it out. We feel real Good about the results to start. We are pretty tuned into how our roasts should taste. This thing makes it even more exciting to cup. Customers are loving the experience and enjoying the product it produces.
Have you heard of this machine? Much like the Clover.
What are your thoughts?
Goshen Coffee was part of the secret about the new Bunn Trifecta Machine. We kept it on the low-down but now the cat is out of the bag. New York Times, Diner’s Journal writer Oliver Strand, just cut this thing wide open in his post, The Trifecta Comes to Town.
So, we created a video of the little gem and put it out there for the coffee community to see. As far as we know, it is the first internet video of this machine. Trifecta Video Debut. Hope to do more videos and document our findings.
Alex has been documenting the variables and using Goshen Coffee to test it out. We feel real Good about the results to start. We are pretty tuned into how our roasts should taste. This thing makes it even more exciting to cup. Customers are loving the experience and enjoying the product it produces.
Have you heard of this machine? Much like the Clover.
What are your thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alex Brooks on
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"I cannot argue "coolness". But you have to ask yourself when Bunn wants their Bubbler back are you going to give them $2800 to keep it? That's a lot of money to a small cafe. Do you have it just sitting around? And how fast will the Bubbler pay off?"
Coolness was a joke. $2800 is a lot to a small cafe. How many small cafe's picked up clovers? Brand new synesso's? Fresh off the line GB5s? Slayers? These machines would go into extremely focused cafes. The intelli's. Stumptowns. CCCs. Then, trickle down, just as the Clover did. It would hypothetically pay off much faster than a Clover.
"Back in the day, the mid-90's that is, a guy named Jeff Hawkins was developing the Palm OS. You know, for PDA's. He had an occams razor in the development process which was "Is this faster than paper?" He did not see his compitition as other gadgets but rather the plain old pad of yellow legal paper all of us still use. By having that kind of perspective he was able to create a truly revolutionalry product. Bunn, and anybody who is developing equipment, is in a similar position. So I ask myself "Is The Bubbler better than pour over?" and I don't get a clear answer. I ask "Is this better than an old 52 that's been dialed in?" And again I don't get a clear answer."
I can't imagine you could get a clear answer, for a couple of reasons: You haven't had coffee off of it, or anything much like it (compare to clover, thats fine, but you have to realize it is a bit more than significantly different). Comparing it to a pour over is silly, mostly because a pour-over's end product is completely different. Is a french press better than a chemex? A pour over? An EvaSolo? Espresso? Thats a sticky question.
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Brady said:Let's also remember that part of the purpose of pre-production field testing is fine-tuning the marketing approach, pricing structure, and final product configuration. Saying "this product is great and I love it" may make people at the manufacturer happy, but it really doesn't help them very much. When it comes time for them to sell the machine to owners, they'll be met with the same criticism, skepticism, and ROI questions that you are seeing here. It'd be nice if they were prepared with good answers for these concerns. "You never get a second chance to make a first impression". Marketing and design tweaks are a lot easier now than they will be halfway through the rollout.
Initially I had a hard time figuring out what exactly it was you were talking about, but now I think I understand. It hasn't been all rainbows and fairies. I've never said "This product is great and I love it". I've implied that it is a competent coffee brewer. It is a prototype. A pretty kick ass prototype, but still, a prototype. They are actively fishing for input from the people with the machines. 3 cafes plus a focused group at Bunn. There are more than few working on it, to say the least. It will be ready when it hits the market.
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Brady said:Alex Brooks said lots of stuff, including:...Those questions have been popping into my head a LOT since getting my hands on this machine. Mostly because of the completely unfounded (read: inexperienced) bashing this machine is getting. I get it, I'm a fairly cynical guy myself. Funny little creatures we humans are.
I'm no tech, but I have spent a fair amount of time around all different kinds of coffee equipment. Never had issues that stemmed from faulty manufacturing, poor design, or anything of the like with Bunn equipment... Mike Sabol said more stuff, like:Mike - I have to disagree with you about Bunn's reputation. I've been a tech for years and I hate working on Bunn equipment. I think it's poorly made, the electronics are poorly protected, and oftentimes the unit is simply poorly thought out...
Alex, glad to hear your experiences with this machine have been positive. Keep the info coming, lots of curious people here.
For the record, I do think that if you'd ask around you'd find lots of long-time professional techs that agree with Mike on Bunn products in general. I don't think it's unreasonable to be skeptical of serviceability and build quality based on past actual experience with a manufacturer's products. We do it with auto companies and other products all the time...
Remember too that most techs service equipment from a variety of manufacturers, so there is a pretty good basis for comparison.
Don't get me wrong, I've had good experiences with Bunn gear at our cafe and happily recommend many of their products... but some of my worst service nightmares have been working on Bunn brewers.
I've a mechanic in my family. Every tech, lube technician, mechanic in the industry has a preference. Hondas suck! Toyotas suck! Ford sucks! Chevy sucks! Dodge sucks! Mazda sucks! Mercedes suck! BMW sucks! Go to enough auto shops, and you'll find out that every car on the road sucks. Then what do you do? Buy a bicycle? Motorcycle? Seriously?
To think that coffee equipment manufacturers are treated any differently is to prove detachment from reality. You're right. But, that's not the question, is it? Shouldn't one ask "What is this machine designed to do? Over what period of time? How does it work for ME? What's important for me?" Taking advice from someone who has never touched or seen the product you are interested in is like taking advice from a poor man about becoming and staying wealthy, no?
Some of my worst service nightmares were on a Fetco. Great company, no? I've had numerous issues with Nuovo Simonelli's as well... great company, right? Preference is different than quality. To many people forget and do the "group think" thing to quickly. Hopefully you're not there with em!
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Really getting dialed in, look for more information on the Trifecta on it's Facebook page soon.
I realize that I may have come off as a bit aggressive, that is not my intention. It's a frustrating thing to see negative speculation on something that hasn't been given a chance. Hope you all forgive the slightly harsh tone of my replies.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Sabol on
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Alex,
So there are three cafes with these things now. So according to your logic there are only three groups of people who can offer opinions about the bubbler. I believe the thread was started to solicit feedback from people who obviously had no experience with the machine. Discounting my opinion just because I have not used the machine like you have is riduculous. That is a bait and switch rhetorical tactic.
Like I ended my post, my mind is open but I am skeptical. I am skeptical for a number of reasons. My actual experience, (not my preference), with the manufactuer's other products is one reason. That is all I am going to say about that. I think that comparing the bubbler to other brewing technologies, espessially the low tech/low cost ones is espessially relavent. That is another reason I am skeptical. Even if the bubbler has a unique flavor that only it can achieve does it make sense to spend the money? For some people maybe yes, for others no. Most cafe's don't have that kind of cash to lay out for a slow ROI piece of equipment. Even if it is unique. And there are not enough Stumptowns and Intelligencias to base a whole new product on. Clover tried that and you see where that got them.
When a Trifecta makes it to Seattle I would love to try it out. I'd also love to take it apart and inspect the build quality and the parts used. Until then I'm going to have to be content with my unfounded opinions.
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"So there are three cafes with these things now. So according to your logic there are only three groups of people who can offer opinions about the bubbler. I believe the thread was started to solicit feedback from people who obviously had no experience with the machine. Discounting my opinion just because I have not used the machine like you have is riduculous. That is a bait and switch rhetorical tactic."
Feedback and borderline trashing (We can call it speculation if you like, but trashing was exactly what it was) are different. What did you expect someone to think when they read that? Deflating your opinion, not discounting, was my intention. Put a little more civilly, I wanted you to realize you were speaking rather harshly about something you didn't know. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion Mike. You can compare apples to oranges as often as you want. Doesn't bother me at all. I was merely adding to this conversation my experience with this machine... That I'm apparently courting.
"And there are not enough Stumptowns and Intelligencias to base a whole new product on. Clover tried that and you see where that got them." ... bought by Starbucks and probably doing OK, working on a new business... no? Besides, it's been covered, Clover was inadequate. Is, rather. As Starbucks is finding out. Whats funny about that? Nothing, just slightly ironic. Hilarious.
The point is understanding these coffees on every level possible right? This machine makes things possible that simply weren't before. Manual methods have their place, I'm not arguing that. Only a few dozen cafes will be able/want to get one of these machines. That's not a problem for anyone. Never has been. I'd be a fool to try to counter that.
Why have a coffee brewer and espresso machine? Why not one or the other? Why have a chemex and a beehouse? A press and a solo? A vac pot? They are all different enough. Trifecta does them one better. Complete automated control over just about every variable. How about consistency, Mike? I'd dare you to find me a barista who could give me the exact same pour over 10 times in a row, but I won't be back in Seattle for a while to collect.
Nice chatting, hope to meet you sometime.
Cheers
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Permalink Reply by Joe Bilman on
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It's a Grind at Polk & Washington
Brendon Parsons said:Hey, does anyone know which "San Francisco Cafe" will receive the Trifecta (as mentioned in the NY Times article)? I live in South Florida (so no coffee shops locally) but will be attending an ACS Meeting in San Francisco March 19-23. Would love to see the Trifecta in person if it is actually going to be making an appearance in San Francisco.
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Permalink Reply by Joshua Taves on
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"Espresso, generally speaking, is brewed in less than 45s - thought that would put things in perspective. Pressure makes that possible. Along with grind size.
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Im not gonna weigh in on this conversation cause I havent gotten to try a trifecta yet, although I touched one once. Anyway me thinks you gotta be careful when comparing espresso to single cup brewing methods. When I train people I try to explain to them that espresso is not a "Brewing method," but instead the pressure is extracting the oils from the coffee. The water is merely there to facilitate the pressure.
Im sure you already know that but I just thought Id take this opportunity to be a little snobby
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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Joshua Taves said:"Espresso, generally speaking, is brewed in less than 45s - thought that would put things in perspective. Pressure makes that possible. Along with grind size.
" Im not gonna weigh in on this conversation cause I havent gotten to try a trifecta yet, although I touched one once. Anyway me thinks you gotta be careful when comparing espresso to single cup brewing methods. When I train people I try to explain to them that espresso is not a "Brewing method," but instead the pressure is extracting the oils from the coffee. The water is merely there to facilitate the pressure.
Im sure you already know that but I just thought Id take this opportunity to be a little snobby
Sorry, gotta disagree. The water is more than just a pressure delivery vehicle - it is the solvent in the extraction process, just like every other brewing method. An espresso extraction is just another brewing method (albeit a very unique one).
If you'd like to discuss this a little more, perhaps including references and links to back up this concept, I'd invite you to start a standalone discussion.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Dominy on
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Played with one today at Everything Coffee and Tea here in Atlanta. Is very similar in consistency to a Clover brew, but works more like an Aeropress. There are lots of parameters you can change, and seems easy to mess with. I had a couple of good brews on it today with our Batdorf Sumatra Lake Tawar and Organic Costa Rica Cerro Del Fuego.
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Permalink Reply by Rusty Angell on
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For anyone who can make it to the NWRBC - there will be a Trifecta station set up during the event and you can get some hands-on time with it. Come and see it for yourself!
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