Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sandy Hon on July 16, 2010 at 7:39am

From the SCAA Blog:
We are currently planning to locate the annual Event in Seattle in 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2018, pending final negotiations and signed contracts.

The SCAA Board has reserved 2016 and 2019 for the Event to be located in the eastern half of the US pending successful negotiations with a suitable venue.

At this time SCAA does not have a letter of intent or other pre-contract agreement for additional years in Seattle, but the WSCC is holding space and dates as a courtesy for 2020 and 2021.

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Permalink Reply by Jeffrey J Kingman on July 16, 2010 at 8:03am

As CEO and Founder of Chalkboarder, providing social media service to Coffee Fest for over nine months now, I wish to thank everyone for making us work extra hard this week; sincerely. We "lit up" all the social media radar search tools on this issue on behalf of our client and have been 24/7 monitoring this topic discussion on several networks.

The significant discussions seem to be happening here, over on Barista Magazine's Facebook fanpage and on the SCAA Facebook fanpage. Some points have been made on those which are not duplicated in others.

The Seattle Times has picked up on this as well, reporting it as a news story a couple days ago.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on July 16, 2010 at 9:19am

Alan Silverman said:

Tara- You and Peter are contributing to the confusion. The letter of intent from the SCAA to the Seattle Conventoion & Visitors Bureau put a hold on 6 years, starting in 2014 to 2021, with two years absence. That is 6 years within 8.

However, earlier...
Alan Silverman said:

...While Coffee Fest certainly doesn’t own Seattle, we do object to the SCAA’s plan to all but permanently locate here and expect that given the details and facts, you may object too.

Yet the actual plan is:

Sandy Hon said:

From the SCAA Blog:
We are currently planning to locate the annual Event in Seattle in 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2018, pending final negotiations and signed contracts. The SCAA Board has reserved 2016 and 2019 for the Event to be located in the eastern half of the US pending successful negotiations with a suitable venue.
At this time SCAA does not have a letter of intent or other pre-contract agreement for additional years in Seattle, but the WSCC is holding space and dates as a courtesy for 2020 and 2021.

I don't see a two there, one away plan as being "all but permanently". Who's adding to the confusion here?

Thanks for the clarification, Sandy.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on July 16, 2010 at 9:26am

I think the part that we in the barista community need to pay special attention to is this:

Tara Shenson said:

...Seattle is a great city, and they have presented a very attractive offer to us. This option will free up resources- in both money and time- that the SCAA intends to use towards more and better regional events. So, ironically, this actually makes it MORE likely that you will have an SCAA event in your backyard!

How many times have we discussed the lack of regional training opportunities or expressed concern over sources of funding for regional competitions? This is starting to look kinda like a win for those of us concerned with those issues.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on July 16, 2010 at 12:58pm

Here Here, Brady, right on.
Joe

Brady said:

I think the part that we in the barista community need to pay special attention to is this:

Tara Shenson said:

...Seattle is a great city, and they have presented a very attractive offer to us. This option will free up resources- in both money and time- that the SCAA intends to use towards more and better regional events. So, ironically, this actually makes it MORE likely that you will have an SCAA event in your backyard!

How many times have we discussed the lack of regional training opportunities or expressed concern over sources of funding for regional competitions? This is starting to look kinda like a win for those of us concerned with those issues.

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Permalink Reply by John P on July 16, 2010 at 4:53pm

Having attended two SCAA conventions and four CoffeeFest, I would say a couple of things:

1) CoffeeFest, in my opinion, is a far better value in terms of education and opportunity for the small retailer.

a) No outrageous fees to be a "CoffeeFest" member
b) More pertinent educational classes for small retailer

2) I believe the SCAA is better overall for the established small business, the larger roaster/retailer or other.

a) While the SCAA has made many significant improvements over the past few years, the cost of attending the event has always been much higher and for the small retailer, I am not convinced that it is of equal value.

b) The regional events are a great benefit, but only if you are within that region. And I am not certain, but if you have to be an SCAA member to attend the regional events, that is lame. But if not, and if the cost is the same for everyone... kudos to the SCAA.

3) All the above being said, I believe that you should attend one OR the other for your first few years and sometimes both if finances allow. There IS much that each has to offer that you cannot get from the other. After the first several years, I believe both are more of a "see what's new" and a great opportunity for networking --- which can often result in a quest for beer, and that's good.

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Permalink Reply by Bryan Wray on July 16, 2010 at 8:48pm

John P said:

which can often result in a quest for beer, and that's good.

Not often... pretty much always. ;) And let's be honest, that's the most important part of these shows anyway, right?

-bry

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Permalink Reply by Brady on July 17, 2010 at 4:42am

John P said:

... b) The regional events are a great benefit, but only if you are within that region. And I am not certain, but if you have to be an SCAA member to attend the regional events, that is lame. But if not, and if the cost is the same for everyone... kudos to the SCAA. ...

The "regional events" that people are referring to are the Regional Skill Building Workshops and Regional Barista Competitions.

You do not have to be an SCAA member to attend either, though there is a serious price advantage to being either a BGA or SCAA member.

BGA members should note that the Regional SBWs are the place where the certification classes and tests will be given. Hopefully, this new strategy results in more SBWs, and therefore more chances for interested baristas to be certified, take classes, have opportunities to work as trainers, etc.

On this note, I'll mention that SBWs can be hosted by a wide range of entities... if there's not already one planned for your area and you are interested in hosting one, just check out the SCAA website to see what's required.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Robertson on July 17, 2010 at 7:35am

Thanks for this clear information Brady.
Joseph

Brady said:

John P said:

... b) The regional events are a great benefit, but only if you are within that region. And I am not certain, but if you have to be an SCAA member to attend the regional events, that is lame. But if not, and if the cost is the same for everyone... kudos to the SCAA. ...

The "regional events" that people are referring to are the Regional Skill Building Workshops and Regional Barista Competitions.

You do not have to be an SCAA member to attend either, though there is a serious price advantage to being either a BGA or SCAA member.

BGA members should note that the Regional SBWs are the place where the certification classes and tests will be given. Hopefully, this new strategy results in more SBWs, and therefore more chances for interested baristas to be certified, take classes, have opportunities to work as trainers, etc.

On this note, I'll mention that SBWs can be hosted by a wide range of entities... if there's not already one planned for your area and you are interested in hosting one, just check out the SCAA website to see what's required.

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Permalink Reply by Chris on July 17, 2010 at 4:10pm

Brady said:

Hopefully, this new strategy results in more SBWs, and therefore more chances for interested baristas to be certified, take classes, have opportunities to work as trainers, etc.

I do have to say that if the only thing that has been said that supports the Seattle sit-down is that it'll be a possibility that it might make regional support more feasible, and the argument against is that it's common courtesy to never profit from the suffering of others (especially if you're the cause of that suffering), it becomes a pretty easy choice for me.
I am hearing "This'll be cheaper for us in the long run. We realize that this is going to impact the income of the Coffee Fest negatively, but we hope that you'll support us because you may also receive some benefit of their misfortune."
I might be mis-characterizing the board's position, but it sounds like the same old corporate greed-head rationalizations to me. Someone convince me that I'm wrong, please?

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Permalink Reply by Mike Sabol on July 17, 2010 at 5:05pm

I'd like to re-suggest my earlier idea of a joint anchor show in Seattle.

Assuming that what John P said is true then Coffee Fest appeals to a section of the market that SCAA does not. And Vise Versa. It would seem to be in the best interest of both parties to work together. All it would take would be for SCAA to get off their 800lb Gorilla High Horse and for Coffee Fest to STOP WHINING. It's obvious that SCAA is the bigger national show BUT Coffee Fest has been putting on successful regional shows for many years. One of the things that has been mentioned a lot in this thread is how SCAA can do a better job regionally if it can anchor a good deal in Seattle. Everybody wants SCAA to do a better job regionally. Why can't SCAA partner with Coffee Fest on the regional shows as well? BGA and SCAA training classes? From my point of view they both have more to gain from working together and they both have a lot to loose if they each take the "sour grapes" route.

As I've said before a joint partship show in Seattle could be really good. A production big enough to draw everyone that wants the exposure of a national show and approachable enough for the smaller retailers and wholesalers who just want to write some orders and move some product. I think exhibitors would love the guarantee of a knock-out show. And if the exhibitors are gonna go then people will attend.

If both sides are willing to tone down the rhetoric then they can work it out. Make us proud, guys.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on July 17, 2010 at 6:14pm

Chris said:

Brady said:

Hopefully, this new strategy results in more SBWs, and therefore more chances for interested baristas to be certified, take classes, have opportunities to work as trainers, etc.

I do have to say that if the only thing that has been said that supports the Seattle sit-down is that it'll be a possibility that it might make regional support more feasible, and the argument against is that it's common courtesy to never profit from the suffering of others (especially if you're the cause of that suffering), it becomes a pretty easy choice for me.
I am hearing "This'll be cheaper for us in the long run. We realize that this is going to impact the income of the Coffee Fest negatively, but we hope that you'll support us because you may also receive some benefit of their misfortune."
I might be mis-characterizing the board's position, but it sounds like the same old corporate greed-head rationalizations to me. Someone convince me that I'm wrong, please?

Chris, from what I've read and heard from the SCAA, I think you are mis-characterizing the board's intentions.

Is SCAA's responsibility to stay out of Coffee Fest's way at all costs, or to insure its viability and give maximum benefit to its membership? As I understand it, the Seattle Expo is the best attended, most profitable, and easiest to organize of all of the shows. If you ran the SCAA and were faced with the opportunity that Seattle has presented them, would you really say no?

As Alan said in his letter, Coffee Fest does not own Seattle. Despite this, its my understanding that he has been given a seat at the table for these discussions - which I think is a nice gesture on the part of the SCAA. This is certainly in keeping with an ethical business relationship between two organizations that are, at least on some level, competitors. How many of you give competitors a seat at the table when making decisions for your business?

Look, if I were Alan and the Coffee Fest guys, I'd be worried about this too. I haven't met them, but they sound like a good, ethical business. I haven't been to a Coffee Fest show, but based on John's comments it sounds like they are a terrific alternative to the SCAA show and a vital part of the coffee business. I sincerely hope that they will find a way to grow and survive through this so that I can visit one.

I am with you in one area though - I'm troubled that so much of this discussion focuses on the big-money players' interests in this - exhibitors and organizers. All I'm suggesting is that we consider the big picture - including Symposium, the workshops, and the implications for funding for regional events. We're primarily a community of baristas, small roasters, and shop owners in this community, and this community is one of our biggest podiums. Let's at least consider the aspects of this discussion that most affect us, so that maybe we can be heard too?

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