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Permalink Reply by Chris on July 30, 2010 at 4:31pm

Clean. Clean groups, clean baskets and PF's, and a clean steam wand. Baristi that know what they're doing, but never fearful of learning something new, even from the cat off the street. Smiling, and flexible. If your sign says that a cappuccino is eight ounces, and I want it to be five when it gets to me, it should happen.
I'd keep the food, and have a coffee line and a food line. If you are *just* getting coffee or espresso, you shouldn't have to wait for the lunch or breakfast crowd. The food crowd should be able to get a coffee drink with their food order, too, though, without having to get in another line.
Places to sit. Laptops should be excluded from fourtops,unless there are four of them. Computer surfers shouldn't be able to string tripwires or commandeer three more chairs than they're sitting in.

All of this, by the way, comes after dealing with the four M's. Good coffee, proper blends; great grinders; good machinery, and well-trained baristi.

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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on July 31, 2010 at 7:43am

I'll admit that I'm in the minority on this one, but when I visit coffee places I'm looking for a place that's innovative. Show me something that I'm not expecting. Sure you've got a Hydra or Slayer with the Anfim or Robur-E grinder and you grind and tamp on command with 4 latte art tulips on your 5.5z cappuccino - but to me, that's kinda "meh."

Maybe you've got some newfangled pour over bar with 16 v60 drippers - again: "meh."

Maybe your espresso menu has five items, single sized and simplicity is your supposed game: "meh."

Or maybe you've got an old timber, six seat bar with a three coffee menu and baristas that speak ad nauseam about the terroir, the farmer, the farm, the processing and how it tastes like rosehips wallowing through fields of strawberries - again: "meh."

All of those places are "good" coffee joints. Show me something new. Show me something innovative. Show me something I haven't seen before and that's the place I'll think is "great".

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Permalink Reply by Marshall Fuss on July 31, 2010 at 11:06am

You’ll probably go broke relying on customers like me, but I find great coffee so rare, I will forgive almost anything to get a cup. I’ve had a hundred bad-to-mediocre coffees served by cheerful, smiling baristas in pleasingly decorated shops and never returned. But I’ve driven miles out of my way to have a great shot of espresso in a motorcycle repair shop in L.A. and walked two miles in the rain for a couple of great shots from a makeshift stand in an alley in San Francisco.

As for innovation, it's so rare that shops get the basics right, I consider innovation to be just icing on the cake.

The “signs” of a good coffee shop are well known and often misleading. For me it’s all in the cup. I’m in a distinct minority.

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Permalink Reply by Deferio on July 31, 2010 at 11:57am

to piggy back on Jay's response...which I think is great...no pun intended.
If you are going to be innovative...you must be innovative with your service experience as well as your menu and quality.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Yates on July 31, 2010 at 1:21pm

So one of the ideas I have for my shop, you know, the one that seemingly is never going to happen, but I don't give up because I am one obsessive caffeine-junkie apostle of coffee...whoops, sorry, rabbit trail. One of my dreams is having my shop designed around the Golden Years of Hollywood, taking some of the glamour of that Art Deco period and incorporating it into my shop. That in itself isn't that innovative, it's just design. But if I used an espresso machine from that era, would that be innovative? I found a grinder in an antique store here in town. It's a Kitchenaid Hobart coffee grinder, red and green, that dates from 1925. It even has an adjustment collar below the hopper. I have fought the urge to buy it for a couple of years now, but I am close to breaking.

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Permalink Reply by Chris on July 31, 2010 at 1:48pm

Marshall Fuss said:

But I’ve driven miles out of my way to have a great shot of espresso in a motorcycle repair shop in L.A. and walked two miles in the rain for a couple of great shots from a makeshift stand in an alley in San Francisco.
The “signs” of a good coffee shop are well known and often misleading. For me it’s all in the cup. I’m in a distinct minority.

I just assumed that the post was referring to: "Once we have the best coffee that we can make, what else?"

And I agree with the others here that have said that. First things first, get the coffee happening right. That'll bring int the riff-raff like Marshal and myself from miles around. I, too, have driven hundreds of miles out of my way (Barefoot, twice) for a cuppa, and hopped a twenty-three dollar cab ride to take three of my workmates for a cuppa at that same makeshift stand in that San Francisco alley. If I hadn't purchased beans (I had a Silvia and a Rocky in my hotel room) the cab ride would have doubled the cost of all of our drinks!
Coffee first. That wooden stand rolled out a roll-up door in a back alley had a line out the door. Wire racks with beans on them, simple wooden counter on wheels, dark, and the baristi weren't that overtly-pleasant. (Note: they were *not* unpleasant, but there was a soup-nazi vibe not to far from the surface) and they had a line out the door.

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Permalink Reply by Marshall Fuss on July 31, 2010 at 2:55pm

Paul Yates said:

One of my dreams is having my shop designed around the Golden Years of Hollywood, taking some of the glamour of that Art Deco period and incorporating it into my shop.

Instead of a tribute to Hollywood, why don't you open a shop in the real Hollywood? People are always telling me how hard it is to find a great cup there.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Yates on July 31, 2010 at 3:11pm

In response to Marshall, I don't want to pay tribute to Hollywood, but instead to the grand, over-the-top, Art Deco period that influenced the stage sets common to movies with Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire, for instance. And I live on the East Coast. But I am sure that somebody, somewhere, wants to serve espresso to Tom Cruise, and let him jump on their couch. Well, maybe not sure, but at least willing... :)

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Permalink Reply by John P on July 31, 2010 at 4:13pm

Get the basics right.

First to the table with a great idea doesn't always translate to the best with that idea. I've been to a few "innovative" places, and wasn't impressed with the basics, so honestly I could care less about their innovation.
So while it's a bonus to have something I haven't had before in terms of method or presentation, wow me in the cup and I'll be back.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on August 2, 2010 at 6:45pm

Chris said:

Marshall Fuss said:

But I’ve driven miles out of my way to have a great shot of espresso in a motorcycle repair shop in L.A. and walked two miles in the rain for a couple of great shots from a makeshift stand in an alley in San Francisco.
The “signs” of a good coffee shop are well known and often misleading. For me it’s all in the cup. I’m in a distinct minority.

I just assumed that the post was referring to: "Once we have the best coffee that we can make, what else?"

And I agree with the others here that have said that. First things first, get the coffee happening right. That'll bring int the riff-raff like Marshal and myself from miles around. I, too, have driven hundreds of miles out of my way (Barefoot, twice) for a cuppa, and hopped a twenty-three dollar cab ride to take three of my workmates for a cuppa at that same makeshift stand in that San Francisco alley. If I hadn't purchased beans (I had a Silvia and a Rocky in my hotel room) the cab ride would have doubled the cost of all of our drinks!
Coffee first. That wooden stand rolled out a roll-up door in a back alley had a line out the door. Wire racks with beans on them, simple wooden counter on wheels, dark, and the baristi weren't that overtly-pleasant. (Note: they were *not* unpleasant, but there was a soup-nazi vibe not to far from the surface) and they had a line out the door.

A great cafe to me means great (world-class) coffee AND a unique experience. Make it one of the 10 best cups of coffee I've ever had AND make it a good story that I'll tell my friends. Innovation would be a way to accomplish this, but so would delivering the goods in a SF alley, being a WBC champion, etc.

Your assessment of current focus is pretty accurate. As I look over your store's website, I see very little about your coffee. Your customer reviews talk more about your food (and customer service) than your coffee. Focusing more on the coffee is a good first step, however, understand that this means focusing less on the food. Not sure how your customers will react to that... Does your ownership know what this means and stand behind the change?

Let's ask some pointed questions. Why do you want to make your store a "great cafe"? What are you hoping to accomplish? Is your coffee really currently "very good"? Is your espresso truly "very good" as well? Is it the best in town? On par with the best in your region? Is it USBC caliber? WBC caliber? On this last question, make an honest assessment to establish your starting point. I've had terrible coffee from people that claimed to have "the best espresso" that "everyone raves about" and "people from Italy/Seattle/Portland say is better than back home".

This is not meant to be mean... but having a good understanding of where you stand is often useful in finding your way to where you want to be.

Hope this helps.

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