Espresso Trends: Where do we go from here?
Reading Mark Prince's 2-part article on Coffeegeek, and I thought it would be great to have some discussion on the various points he brought out. Part one can be found here: http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/markprince/08-14-2010 and part two can be found here: http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/markprince/08-16-2010
I will let you read Mr. Prince's words for yourself, rather than try to restate them here, but I do have some questions that his articles brought to my mind.
He lists Epic and Stumptown as being the only 2 roasters he knows who have maintained a consistent flavor profile in an espresso blend over the long term. Does anyone know of any other roasters who have managed this in an espresso blend?
In the follow-up article, he slaps down pressure-profiling as being almost pointless, and points instead to the need for temperature profiling as more important. Your thoughts?
Also in that article, he suggests that pro baristas should learn what consumer grade espresso machines and grinders are capable of achieving, allowing the professional to connect with the consumer on the consumer's level. I will admit, it is frustrating to hear what one can do on a Linea, Strayer, Synesso, when I have to make do with a DeLonghi from Target! He suggests that roasters use consumer espresso machines to develop their espresso blends, allowing consumers to experience espresso nirvana. Your thoughts?
Looking forward to this one!
I will let you read Mr. Prince's words for yourself, rather than try to restate them here, but I do have some questions that his articles brought to my mind.
He lists Epic and Stumptown as being the only 2 roasters he knows who have maintained a consistent flavor profile in an espresso blend over the long term. Does anyone know of any other roasters who have managed this in an espresso blend?
In the follow-up article, he slaps down pressure-profiling as being almost pointless, and points instead to the need for temperature profiling as more important. Your thoughts?
Also in that article, he suggests that pro baristas should learn what consumer grade espresso machines and grinders are capable of achieving, allowing the professional to connect with the consumer on the consumer's level. I will admit, it is frustrating to hear what one can do on a Linea, Strayer, Synesso, when I have to make do with a DeLonghi from Target! He suggests that roasters use consumer espresso machines to develop their espresso blends, allowing consumers to experience espresso nirvana. Your thoughts?
Looking forward to this one!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by jonathan bonchak on
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My initial thought as far as machines go...it's good to have some super high end pieces in the marketplace. Where would Ford be without a little strive to compete, on however base a level, with say BMW or Mercedes?
A majority of sales for a roastery is to coffeehouses. So we want to educate the consumer and sell them espresso blends that have formulated to work best on home machines...you'd need a lot of people abandoning their local coffeeshop to affect it, but isn't that hurting the shop a little bit?
Also, I'm continually confused by the push and pull for consistency in profile. Quality is one thing, shouldn't be compromised....but it seems like the desire for repeatability in both the blend and single origin espressos only holds us back.
Coffee changes, so should we. Just have to pay attention
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Permalink Reply by luke hudek on
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"Also in that article, he suggests that pro baristas should learn what consumer grade espresso machines and grinders are capable of achieving, allowing the professional to connect with the consumer on the consumer's level. I will admit, it is frustrating to hear what one can do on a Linea, Strayer, Synesso, when I have to make do with a DeLonghi from Target! He suggests that roasters use consumer espresso machines to develop their espresso blends, allowing consumers to experience espresso nirvana. Your thoughts?"
This is not a bad idea, but I think it speaks more to the manufacturers of home equipment than baristas (higher quality at lower price). That's just my opinion though...
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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on
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You're wasting your time and brain cells by giving Mark Prince's thoughts too much consideration.
His thoughts on pressure profiling are immature and without practical basis. His writing on espresso is simply grandstanding while hyping a roaster who gives him free coffee. And his notes on temperature profiling are done without a machine capable of controlling temperature (a "problem" that will be remedied later this year when a temperature-profiling machine is expected to hit the market).
He then rants on about a Pro/Consumer "disconnect" complaining about baristas giving customers detailed data regarding espresso brewing. This kind of complaining is simply absurd.
A customer who has not made a significant investment in proper espresso grinding and brewing equipment will unlikely be able to recreate the espresso as prepared in a professional coffee place. Is this somehow "wrong"? Absolutely not. A proper coffee joint has made a significant investment in proper equipment and lengthy training of the baristas to provide that level of espresso. To expect that a person at home can create equal without the same level of commitment is ridiculous.
I could go on but it would just be a waste of my time.
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Jay Caragay said:You're wasting your time and brain cells by giving Mark Prince's thoughts too much consideration.
His thoughts on pressure profiling are immature and without practical basis. His writing on espresso is simply grandstanding while hyping a roaster who gives him free coffee. And his notes on temperature profiling are done without a machine capable of controlling temperature (a "problem" that will be remedied later this year when a temperature-profiling machine is expected to hit the market).
He then rants on about a Pro/Consumer "disconnect" complaining about baristas giving customers detailed data regarding espresso brewing. This kind of complaining is simply absurd.
A customer who has not made a significant investment in proper espresso grinding and brewing equipment will unlikely be able to recreate the espresso as prepared in a professional coffee place. Is this somehow "wrong"? Absolutely not. A proper coffee joint has made a significant investment in proper equipment and lengthy training of the baristas to provide that level of espresso. To expect that a person at home can create equal without the same level of commitment is ridiculous.
I could go on but it would just be a waste of my time.
First off I am about to assume that home baristas are having a huge complaint about there machine quality, or quality price ratio.
Second:
Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but it's possible to make a meal at home that is as good if not better than a restaurants (with a few exceptions, mostly high end ones mind you). What you pay for is often a service, someone else is making it for you, not necessarily the quality. Even an ill equipped home kitchen can make a gourmet meal, and trust me I have had to do that before.
Again, just playing Devil's Advocate, in all honesty the only problem I could see amidst all of this is that home machines have a bad quality/price ratio, which is hardly a baristas fault.
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Permalink Reply by Kevin Ayers on
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Interesting articles indeed. What I like is Princes devotion to what he believes. He says what he wants without remorse. Unfortunately he makes A LOT of assumptions based on his own experiences and continues to assert those assumptions. I mean, TWO roasters IN THE WORLD still paying attention to the craft of blending? Come on...there are MANY more than that, who truly put effort in to the blending and roasting profiles of their espresso offerings. We're not all just jumping on the bandwagon of his claimed "ease of roasting" of single origin espressos and giving up on blends.
And what is his deal with connecting single origin espresso to the growing use of chemex and other drip methods taking over? (and are they really TAKING OVER?) YES, espresso is fantastic, and YES it is a UNIQUE way of brewing up coffee...I live it, love it, and truly enjoy learning any thing that I can about the bean on a day to day basis (well, you cant pour sweet ass latte art in a cup of drip). Yet, it is frustrating to hear him talk as if something is wrong with people who enjoy drip coffee. IT'S ALL COFFEE! I love it in all (well MOST) of it's forms, (if it's brewed properly), chemex, aero-press, melitta, technivorm, bacci...anything that can make a good cup, and display the unique properties of the individual bean. So, according to him, I am n00b because I like to find the best way to make a specific single origin coffee taste the best out of my aero-press? I have learned A LOT about the roast process from roasting single origin for a drip method, (or press or whatever) and it is just flat out incorrect to claim roasting for single origin is the "easy way out". Also, what roasters are doing this? I still see blends available for purchase from many well respected roasters, including many I will still order from.
Now, am I writing all of this to defend single origin espresso? NO, NO NO NO and NO. It's fun to play with, and has a few benefits, BUT, I do tend to agree with him on many aspects of his "hatred" for single origin espresso. It's not (probably) the NEXT step, just a different way to enjoy coffee. I don't agree with the DIRECT connection that he claims to the rise in other drip methods.
I am fully aware that Mr.Prince has been a part of the coffee community for MUCH longer than I, and I have always respected and enjoyed his website and points of view (not speaking of the lack of content as of late). I just couldn't help but say something, as he makes SO many generalizations about all of us fellow coffee geeks, it's almost as if he is getting jaded by the whole scene in general. I mean, what's wrong with trying new things, like S.O. espressos and the like? It's fun and, isn't that what being a part of this community is all about? (Unless you are kayakman, and you just want to start arguments, not discussions)
Lastly, what kind of scotch do you think he drinks? Because I can not even BEGIN to fathom the arguments/discussions that have taken place over HUNDREDS of years about blending scotch to taste the same CONSISTENTLY, or leaving it single malt in order to taste the UNIQUE flavors the regional malts and methods can impart. Blended scotch/Single malt = Espresso blend/Single origin espresso? Maybe not, but still, you won't see any whiskey connoisseur drinking J&B 3 yr because it tastes the same every time. Me? I will enjoy a well thought out and executed blend of scotch, just as much as I will enjoy a crazy smoky/salty/sea-watery 18yr Caol Ila. Same goes for coffee. Just prepare the selected method correctly, and I will appreciate it for all it is worth.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Yates on
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Ok, so rather than "waste my time and brain cells" as Jay so diplomatically puts it (insert teasing smile), I do have a serious question, one that was spurred by Mr. Prince's article. Is single origin espresso sustainable as a standard offering in our shops? Is our obsession with SOE threatening our ability to produce high-quality espresso blends? Or is it actually the next evolutionary step for "barista man"?
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Luke-
Without a doubt, a homemade meal can be as good or better than a restaurant meal. I routinely make steak dinners at home that are superior to that of restaurants. Of course, this presumes a certain level of commitment, experience and sourcing of quality ingredients.
Beyond that, it is also possible for someone at home to prepare a multi-course tasting menu of small bites that can rival those of fine dining establishments. Again, this requires a serious commitment to training/experience, sourcing and equipment. At home, I can cook sous vide very precisely because I've made the financial commitment to a proper PolyScience immersion circulator and a Multivac chamber vacuum sealer, and I can create some of those wilder concoctions because I've spent the time learning the techniques and investing in the various chemicals and components to do so.
What does all this mean? That it is absolutely possible to create at home the level of quality that you find in great coffee places and restaurants, but it takes serious commitment. Any "coffee geek" can make great quality coffee on par with the best shops in the nation - if they invest the time, energy and resources.
That is the difference that makes the difference.
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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luke hudek said:
First off I am about to assume that home baristas are having a huge complaint about there machine quality, or quality price ratio.
Second:
it's possible to make a meal at home that is as good if not better than a restaurants (with a few exceptions, mostly high end ones mind you). What you pay for is often a service, someone else is making it for you, not necessarily the quality.
First, (with notable exceptions of late) a great grinder can pair with some pretty low-priced home machines and produce an exceptional cup of espresso. I used to say that grinders make espresso, and espresso machines just make water hot and push it through the puck. Very shortly that will be completely untrue without the alteration, 'make the water a precise temperature and push it through the puck with precise pressure profiles'. But you see what I'm saying.
Sylvia and my Gaggia Factory could rival the pulls that I got form my two group with the grind form my Majors.
Second, some of those meals require (as Jay points out) some fairly specific kit. Sous-vide cookers are running $500- $1200, easy. Home sous-vide geeks are PID'ing there crock-pots in much the same way that home baristi are PID'ing their espresso machines. But, cooking (in general) requires a much more in-depth knowledge of the chemistry of food than espresso does. Espresso is damned complex, don't get me wrong, and some cooking is remarkably simple. There is still a parallel between being able to source the same meat and grill it in your backyard over the same mesquite and pecan wood that you got at 'Lil Abners' here in Tucson, and some of the preparations that require a sous-vide cooker and a nitrogen cooler; and making the same espresso that you got from someone's FB-80 on your ECM Giotto, and trying to make the same one that you got from someone's Slayer or Strada.
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Paul Yates said:Ok, so rather than "waste my time and brain cells" as Jay so diplomatically puts it (insert teasing smile), I do have a serious question, one that was spurred by Mr. Prince's article. Is single origin espresso sustainable as a standard offering in our shops? Is our obsession with SOE threatening our ability to produce high-quality espresso blends? Or is it actually the next evolutionary step for "barista man"?
My time in the field is not what others on these forums are, but I have played around with blends, SOE, and other methods of roasting and blending espresso (pre, post, double), and some combination is bound to be the next step at some point.
Just to put in my two cents, I happen to really enjoy SOE, and think playing around with origins roast profiles and making espresso from them makes for a very unique and enjoyable experience both for the barista and consumer. I like the idea of espresso moving in this direction, I could even see instead of offering a house coffee and something dark or light on a drip, cafes offering SOE Americano as a variation (I hope that made sense / was able to be followed).
To touch on my previous post, I do not feel the home market of machines is at a bad place by any means, I can get an above decent shot out of my modded Rancilio Silvia/Mazzer Major (it was used and rebuilt by us dont judge why I have something that overkill!) that far exceeds 90% of my areas local cafes.
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luke hudek said:dont judge why I have something that overkill!
Never apologise for the size or quality of your grinder. A lesser grinder would more than likely produce a lesser cup. IIRC, it was Heather that said that she would prefer a great grinder and a small home machine to a great machine and a small home grinder any day. If it wasn't, apologies to both her and whomever actually said it, but...
Get the best grinder that you can, and then go see what's left for an espresso machine. That'll usually result in the best expenditure for the goal of the best espresso.
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Paul-
Perhaps you're over-thinking it when it comes to SO Espresso. It's an option. An option that you can choose to utilize or not utilize. Perhaps it's something to augment your program. Should it be the Be-All, End-All of your espresso program? Well, that's up for you to decide.
As for myself, I prefer to let our tastes be our guide. I'm not a big fan of SO Espresso but that doesn't mean that we won't offer something like the Ethiopia Michicha Espresso as a "guest" espresso. We leave it open to interpretation and to whatever we're excited about at the time.
One of the biggest problems in the industry is that people like Prince are looking to name some sort of "definitive" to claim as their own. Something to showoff and showboat about. There's nothing definitive about anything that we do as it is constantly changing and evolving. Stumptown's Hairbender has always demonstrated bright tones and Hines has always demonstrated chocolate-y tones. Is this to say they're 100% consistent day in and day out, year after year? Certainly not. They're close and they emulate a certain profile, but they're never that consistent - which keeps it interesting.
Is any of this sustainable? I don't know, how are your customers responding? Are they buying and buying and buying? Then it's sustainable!
Jeff-
I'd like to take a moment to point out that, as far as I know, Prince does not have any sort of stake in the machine that Bill Crossland is developing. Quite honestly, I think Bill's new machine is incredibly exciting and I wish he were developing one for the commercial market. However, I'm told this temperature profile machine is strictly a consumer machine.
It is my understanding that the CoffeeGeek.com policy for equipment reviews is for the manufacturer to donate the machine to CoffeeGeek.com aka Mr. Prince.
Back to Home Espresso...
In many ways, I empathize with the home espresso maker. It's difficult to reproduce what we do in a professional environment at home. Heck, I've got a La Valentina and a Mazzer Major and I don't bother making espresso at home. The problem with the argument presented is that Prince seems to want the home espresso maker to make professional level espresso with low end tools. While I think it's a laudable pursuit to drive your equipment beyond it's maximum, an overdriven ECM Giotto is still not a La Marzocco FB80 or Synesso Cyncra. And your Baratza Vario is still not a Compak K10WBC.
And who's to say that the coffee cannot perform under different circumstances? When we tell customers that we prefer 201.5F, 21 grams, 1.75z, 25-29 sec, we mean that these are the parameters that are our standards for the coffee. These are the standards that we operate because we have determined these to be the maximum potential for that coffee. By no means is that to say that the coffee will be good ONLY if those parameters are met. You can get some really nice coffee with other parameters and as the "home barista" it's your job to experiment with your equipment, learn its' sweet spots and make killer coffee.
Our job is to deliver you amazing coffee in our environment. Your job is to deliver great coffee in your home.
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