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Permalink Reply by Oscar Nyman on October 14, 2010 at 4:30pm

Mahlkönig K30, sort of: set the dose to max (30seks) and it works like you want it except that for every 8 or so shot you will need to insert portafilter twice or hit dose button.

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Permalink Reply by Casey Loseth on October 14, 2010 at 4:41pm

The Macap M4, it has three choices that are one button click away, single dose, double dose, and continuous. the single and double you program a time to you want click the button and it shoots out the grind, the confinuous you just hold the portafilter against the button and it shoots out until you pull away. We had one we were demoing in the shop a week or so ago, it was great.

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Permalink Reply by Keaton Ritchie on October 14, 2010 at 5:59pm

Actually, why not have the conversation about why you dislike timed doses? That's how you're able to cut down on waste with doserless grinders and they work wonders for consistency, in addition to getting you away from simply dosing level to the top of the basket- which might well be good for your espresso.
That said, the K30 is the only grinder i know of that fits your description- in my experience it can get a little clumpy, but they're really fast.

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Permalink Reply by Jackson Ball on October 14, 2010 at 6:54pm

If I'm not mistaken, early model Compak K10 doserless grinders are strictly on demand. They do not have a timer and are activated by pushing the PF against a button below the dosing spout.

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Permalink Reply by ryan mcdougall on October 15, 2010 at 8:41am

YES! Thanks so much guys.

For a conversation on hating timed doses I think that could be a whole other thread, or a blog. But in short. tighten your grinder all the way you can. Then weigh the coffee with a timed grind of oh, say, 4 seconds. now, loosen the grinder all the way and weigh out a 4 second grind. Completely different weights, completely different volumes of grounds. Reason being, it takes a shorter time to grind more coffee when the burrs are further apart or the grind is more "coarse". So if the relationship between coffee weight and volume would be plotted on a graph they would have a more similar line to one another than to that of the time line. Which means that basing your weight on the volume is a much closer representation of the weight of the coffee than the time span in which it was ground. Thus, basing your grind on time is choosing the least accurate of three variables.

If I was any good at Adobe illustrator I would do this work for you, for now you're just going to have to use your mind's eye.

I think what I'm trying to say is that, if your shots are short and you want to tighten up your grind (density of grinds = resistance) you're now getting less grinds/volume/weight per x seconds, shot time stays roughly the same. On the other hand, maybe you want more grinds/volume/weight to compensate for the short shot times. You can actually do the opposite of intelligent and increase your volume/weight by doing what? Increasing the distance between burrs? and get what? The same result. Increasing volume gives more distance for the water to travel which = resistance. That just shows that you cannot adjust grind without adjusting time to compensate your volume/weight.
No matter what you do you will have to adjust the grind ever so often. We can't escape it, unless you work for St. Arbucks, dunken donuts, einstein's bagels, seattle's worst, Olive garden, etc.

Now! calibrating the shot times by eye: 1 change grind, 2 watch and remove portafilter when full.
Or! calibrating a grind with time based grinder: 1 change grind, 2 watch basket overfill or not fill at all and 3 adjust time. 4 repeat if necessary.

Doesn't just seem like an unnecessary step, it IS an unnecessary step. By eye-balling the basket and filling 0.5-1 gram more than the basket will initially hold, I can then use that extra gram to fill in holes, smooth the top, and waste 0.05g at most, if any, and have supremely consistent shots. Or, use a grinder which may at times require 4 or 5 adjustments to get your grind set and waste up to 36 or 45 grams every time the wind changes or you open a new bag of beans. in addition this extra step will frustrate/intimidate/discourage your employees from setting the grind appropriately leading to close to 0 consistency. The time, coffee, and money saved by not having to reprogram and by trusting my employees god given eyeballs to judge volume seems more economical. Some of this is a little scattered. sorry, I'll have a function worked out for all you math geeks and doubters asap.

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Permalink Reply by Oscar Nyman on October 15, 2010 at 10:55am

Sure, but this is not revolutionary? There are no volumetric or weight based dosed grinders yet but that does not mean you HAVE TO use the time based dosing on your current grinder?

The process you describe is how I and many others are using Mahlkönig K30s and any Mazzer E model with the only difference having to hold the manual dose button on Mazzers. I think most experienced people (not working in a super high volume environment with standardized processes) use the manual button on Mazzer Es?

I would not change grinders just due to the fact of one specific model not requiring to hold a button/turn a switch? In that case contact me and we can swap grinders as I don't like the clumpiness of my K30Twin, I would love to have a conical Mazzer E instead! ;-)

I

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