Temperatures of steamed milk.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Shadow on
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I like to steam in the 140-145 range. During colder weather I tend to go to 150 or so because everything we do is in to-go cups. I do have a few customers that like their drinks "hot, hot, hot" and for that I go to 180+ (their preference, not mine).
I do prefer to use a digital thermometer (calibrated often I might add) just to maintain accuracy/consistency. I simply don't believe the human touch is good enough to distinguish 5-10 degree variations.
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Permalink Reply by Nathanael May on
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Out of curiosity, I just steamed 10 pitchers of milk in a row "by touch," to test this, and they all came out to 150-160. Maybe I have sensitive hands, but I think it's doable, and it saves me a crap load of time in recalibrating thermometers.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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Shadow said:...I do prefer to use a digital thermometer (calibrated often I might add) just to maintain accuracy/consistency. I simply don't believe the human touch is good enough to distinguish 5-10 degree variations.
I have to agree with Shadow here. While many baristas are capable of consistently and accurately steaming milk to the correct temperature, many don't seem to be. Its kinda like singing - way more people think they can do it than can actually do it. If you can, good for you... but we require all of our baristas to use thermometers.
A couple of our regulars "left" our competition for us because they were tired of inconsistent "too cold-too hot" drinks. They didn't think they needed to use thermometers...
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Now to the question...
150ish is generally considered to be a good temp. You're looking to maximize milk sweetness and mouthfeel. Sweetness develops as you heat it. However, if you continue to heat milk beyond a certain point (160ish, iirc) it will begin to break down and feel thinner on your tongue. So what you are looking for is a temp that your customer will perceive to be hot enough, has developed enough sweetness, and has a nice viscosity.
We shoot for 160 since most of our drinks are in to-gos. It is a balance that works for us. A different temp may work for you.
If you have drinks coming back, I'd say you might bump your temp a bit. For every drink that came back, there were several that "suffered" in silence. You can also encourage those that prefer a hotter or colder drink to ask for it - once they realize that its ok they will.
An equally important factor is how warm your ceramics are. If they are not kept hot on top of the machine, always preheat before using.
Hope that helps.
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Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on
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While I usually agree with you Brady on this one I tend to disagree. I could use the same argument that many Barista don't build shots properly so should only use a grinder like a Swift that does it for them. Or even argue further for a well maintained Super-Automatic so the build and pull isn't in the hands of an unskilled barista.
Steaming accurately by touch is a skill that can be learned, practiced and taught.
Brady said:
Shadow said:...I do prefer to use a digital thermometer (calibrated often I might add) just to maintain accuracy/consistency. I simply don't believe the human touch is good enough to distinguish 5-10 degree variations.
I have to agree with Shadow here. While many baristas are capable of consistently and accurately steaming milk to the correct temperature, many don't seem to be. Its kinda like singing - way more people think they can do it than can actually do it. If you can, good for you... but we require all of our baristas to use thermometers.
A couple of our regulars "left" our competition for us because they were tired of inconsistent "too cold-too hot" drinks. They didn't think they needed to use thermometers...
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Permalink Reply by Greg Hill on
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completely agree.
but to the OP, every brand of milk has a sweet spot. kleinpeter in nola is bangin from 140-155, while smiths is awesome at 160. just taste and see. and when the cows change from a grass diet to a hay diet (up north/in the winter), your milk will change, and so should your optimal steaming temp.
Mike McGinness said:While I usually agree with you Brady on this one I tend to disagree. I could use the same argument that many Barista don't build shots properly so should only use a grinder like a Swift that does it for them. Or even argue further for a well maintained Super-Automatic so the build and pull isn't in the hands of an unskilled barista.
Steaming accurately by touch is a skill that can be learned, practiced and taught.
Brady said:
Shadow said:...I do prefer to use a digital thermometer (calibrated often I might add) just to maintain accuracy/consistency. I simply don't believe the human touch is good enough to distinguish 5-10 degree variations.
I have to agree with Shadow here. While many baristas are capable of consistently and accurately steaming milk to the correct temperature, many don't seem to be. Its kinda like singing - way more people think they can do it than can actually do it. If you can, good for you... but we require all of our baristas to use thermometers.
A couple of our regulars "left" our competition for us because they were tired of inconsistent "too cold-too hot" drinks. They didn't think they needed to use thermometers...
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Mike, I totally agree that steaming accurately by touch can be taught. We teach it. I personally don't have an issue hitting target temp without a thermometer, and I know many baristas (including ours) that do it just fine. However, accurately steaming to target temp for every single drink does seem to be easier for some than for others, and many good baristas get it wrong sometimes without knowing it. It comes down to focus and practice.
The issue for us is that, unlike shot prep issues, there's not much feedback for milk temp errors. Prep problems show up as slow or quick shots, early blonding, and finished crema appearance. The first clue you'll get with a temp error is a drink coming back.
We just use it as a feedback tool. Our baristas need to have an accurate touch to get it right, since our thermometers lag by several seconds. Their presence in the pitcher is as a training aid when they are new, and as a verification tool for them and us when they are more experienced. When I work with the other baristas, I like being able to glance over to see how their shots look, how their milk looks, and where they cut the milk off... quietly double checking them from time to time. Even good baristas have bad days, and I want to know if someone's attention-to-detail is lacking.
That's the reason we require that a thermometer be in every pitcher - even mine. We don't want the "I'm too good to use a thermometer" mentality... that creates an atmosphere where people are motivated to stop using it as soon as possible. I also want to lead by example - if I treat it like a valuable tool, maybe they'll feel the same way.
FWIW, I wouldn't compare steaming with a thermometer for verification to pushing a button on a superauto any more than I would timing shots, pulling into shot glasses, checking doses with a scale... stuff like that. Its just another objective verification tool.
Mike McGinness said:
While I usually agree with you Brady on this one I tend to disagree. I could use the same argument that many Barista don't build shots properly so should only use a grinder like a Swift that does it for them. Or even argue further for a well maintained Super-Automatic so the build and pull isn't in the hands of an unskilled barista.
Steaming accurately by touch is a skill that can be learned, practiced and taught.
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Brady, once again great logical reply. Do you use multiple thermometers in beverage production since therms' should be at least rinsed between usages, ideally in sanitizing solution. Do you place the waiting therms' in iced water between usages or are they placed directly in pitchers ready to steam after rinsing or ? Curious how the flow works in heavy production. Thermometer available for each pitcher (that could be a lot of thermometers:), or one or more for each size pitcher or ?
Brady said:Mike, I totally agree that steaming accurately by touch can be taught. We teach it. I personally don't have an issue hitting target temp without a thermometer, and I know many baristas (including ours) that do it just fine. However, accurately steaming to target temp for every single drink does seem to be easier for some than for others, and many good baristas get it wrong sometimes without knowing it. It comes down to focus and practice.
The issue for us is that, unlike shot prep issues, there's not much feedback for milk temp errors. Prep problems show up as slow or quick shots, early blonding, and finished crema appearance. The first clue you'll get with a temp error is a drink coming back.
We just use it as a feedback tool. Our baristas need to have an accurate touch to get it right, since our thermometers lag by several seconds. Their presence in the pitcher is as a training aid when they are new, and as a verification tool for them and us when they are more experienced. When I work with the other baristas, I like being able to glance over to see how their shots look, how their milk looks, and where they cut the milk off... quietly double checking them from time to time. Even good baristas have bad days, and I want to know if someone's attention-to-detail is lacking.
That's the reason we require that a thermometer be in every pitcher - even mine. We don't want the "I'm too good to use a thermometer" mentality... that creates an atmosphere where people are motivated to stop using it as soon as possible. I also want to lead by example - if I treat it like a valuable tool, maybe they'll feel the same way.
FWIW, I wouldn't compare steaming with a thermometer for verification to pushing a button on a superauto any more than I would timing shots, pulling into shot glasses, checking doses with a scale... stuff like that. Its just another objective verification tool.
Mike McGinness said:
While I usually agree with you Brady on this one I tend to disagree. I could use the same argument that many Barista don't build shots properly so should only use a grinder like a Swift that does it for them. Or even argue further for a well maintained Super-Automatic so the build and pull isn't in the hands of an unskilled barista.
Steaming accurately by touch is a skill that can be learned, practiced and taught.
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Thanks, Mike.
We currently have a pair of them, but should prob have more. They get exactly the same treatment as our pitchers - rinsed well with clean water between uses. In a rush, they sometimes just go from one pitcher to another, but its really easy to keep them clipped to the pitcher while it is rinsed. Since those are always rinsed between uses, the thermometer just kinda goes along for the ride. Its not a bad system, but could probably be improved. I'd prefer to have one per pitcher, keeping in mind that we generally only use 5 pitchers (one 12oz, two 20oz, two 32oz)... going to 4 would be great. Hmmm... I may have to introduce two more to the bar.
When not in use, I like to keep them with the pitchers. Others park them in the "dipperwell" with the bar spoons. I think in the pitcher is better, one less thing to grab when you're busy.
They are kind of a pain, I admit. The health inspector always checks them when she comes, so we monitor their calibration. Ours have been surprisingly stable though, so haven't needed recalibration in a long time. I started using them a little begrudgingly, but have come around now.
Mike McGinness said:Brady, once again great logical reply. Do you use multiple thermometers in beverage production since therms' should be at least rinsed between usages, ideally in sanitizing solution. Do you place the waiting therms' in iced water between usages or are they placed directly in pitchers ready to steam after rinsing or ? Curious how the flow works in heavy production. Thermometer available for each pitcher (that could be a lot of thermometers:), or one or more for each size pitcher or ?
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Would like to add that for our business drink consistency and customer satisfaction/safety come first. Barista ego would be a close second, lol. I choose to use a thermometer to ensure consistency/safety so every single drink we serve is exactly what the customer wants and we never have any returns or complaints. We also ask the customer to take a sip to ensure the drink is the way they want it before leaving. I'll gladly go the extra bit to make sure a customer is as happy as we can possibly make them.
The safety aspect is really important as well because we make alot of drinks for children and the parents usually want the milk quite a bit cooler than our normal temperature range. This is where a properly calibrated thermometer comes into play. I simply don't think the human touch can distinguish 5-10 degree variations.
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