Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by sage on January 8, 2011 at 1:09pm

john, happy new year to you!  thanks for taking a moment to reply to my discussion, i think.  wow, i didn't mean to come across as someone who was moaning or griping or complaining.  i rather like my "job", and like seeing and experiencing the achievements reached over the last near-decade, and believe i can say the same for the vast majority of our customers.  i was simply putting the discussion out there to compare what i do, or don't do, to other shops simply for perspective.  as i said in another post or blog on here somewhere, i think its great that each shopkeep can alter or tailor their particular product and service according to what suits them best, you know?  i did omit that at our shops we do offer a reasonable discount to those that want a refill in their own travel mug.  really, in our shops' history, i can only recall just one customer even asking if we offer refills.  many times i offer "free fills" if i'm enthusiastic about a new coffee or product, or as i said before, if i want to offer a gesture of thanks to a customer that has stopped by several times throughout the course of the day or throughout the course of a 3-5 day event.  the only hard parts about my job can be severely long hours, and, trying to get others to realize i'm not "bitching" about my job--just merely discussing--like the heading up there says: all discussions/view discussions.

 

best,

 

sage

the coffee hound

John Berkness said:

because a twelve ounce coffee doesn't cost as much as a t-shirt, It's not as if the shop is losing money on a half priced refill. They're probobly making more money than if they didn't offer them, not to say that its substantial but pennies turn into dollars.

exe. customer: "do you offer refills" You: "no" Them: "ok bye"

where as my example Customer: "do you offer refills" Me: "yes, but they're half price" Them: "oh why not."

Sales are sales whether they are lackluster or not. and moving product as far as I know is and always has been a good thing.

A dont call me and my shop illegit for offering 1/2 priced refills

B if your going to bitch so much about a tiny thing like refills quit serving coffee, I heard somewhere that you don't have to offer the second T' Shirt half off if you work at American Apparell.

C Quit acting like your job is sooo hard. you work in the coffee industry for christ sake.

 

ok that was a bit much but lately I'm getting pretty annoyed by people bitching about thier "hard" jobs in the coffee industry, I know for a fact there are a ton of people out there ready for work who won't.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by sage on January 8, 2011 at 1:14pm

hey andrew, thanks for your feedback.  likewise, am moving the coffee pretty well, so really don't have any issues with unfresh product.  appreciate your input!...not sure what you meant by your 4th sentence...can you clarify?

 

thanks much,

sage

the coffee hound

Andrew Mangino said:

I can see your point but look at it like this. Every day that coffee sits it loses its flavor and aroma. I want my coffee to be the freshest around, so I have to move as much coffee as possible. Selling a second cup?bag at a discounted rate in my eyes keeps this goal not to mention a customer happy. Put that 2.25 dollar amount to unsold coffee that gets dumped down the drain after it sits. (i hope it gets dumped) Sometimes it pays to give a little to get more.

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Permalink Reply by sage on January 8, 2011 at 1:17pm

jay, do i hear a little cynicism there?!

 

sage 

the coffee hound

Jay Caragay said:

Those of you who batch brew your coffees probably should, but how about half off or free on cappuccinos and lattes?  Or espresso?  Why not do them - they're still cheaper than an American Apparel t-shirt.

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Permalink Reply by sage on January 8, 2011 at 4:06pm

katie jo, hello!  i like how you think!  you summed it up pretty briefly, which took me a dissertation and a half to accomplish!  hate to even say these words, but, the bottom line does exist with any business, right?  everyone has that economic picture going on, and i'm assuming everyone wants to show profit, right?  i think we all have our incentives in place in order to attract and keep customers...via quality product or quality service, or both.  one shop might offer free refills, another shop might offer a good value of a distinctive 16oz latte...what's the big difference if in the end everyone is happy, your shop is showing profit, and we all sleep well and dream well about our next morning's favourite cup of black gold, right?!

 

thanks for contributing...best of luck/fortune/cheers here in '11!

 

sage 

the coffee hound

Katie Jo said:

I like what you have to say about "treating" the customers at your discretion. As an owner of the business it would be simple to keep track of those things, but may get out of hand if other employees just give away coffee freely to friends. A punch card for purchases, offering the 10th one free for example, would be a good way to say thanks you. Something to consider; if every customer, took their FREE next coffee, the business would be giving away half their goods. A definite dis-service.

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Permalink Reply by John Berkness on January 9, 2011 at 2:08pm

Happy New Year to you as well Sage. I hope my own ranting and bitching was taken with a grain of salt.I can see that my early morning posts bitching about bitching about bitching are trite at best. which brings me to the hardest part of my job. Coping with early mornings, I can't for the life of me begin to understand how i get up everyday. but the days keep coming and I keep waking up.

 

Keep waking up.

John

sage said:

john, happy new year to you!  thanks for taking a moment to reply to my discussion, i think.  wow, i didn't mean to come across as someone who was moaning or griping or complaining.  i rather like my "job", and like seeing and experiencing the achievements reached over the last near-decade, and believe i can say the same for the vast majority of our customers.  i was simply putting the discussion out there to compare what i do, or don't do, to other shops simply for perspective.  as i said in another post or blog on here somewhere, i think its great that each shopkeep can alter or tailor their particular product and service according to what suits them best, you know?  i did omit that at our shops we do offer a reasonable discount to those that want a refill in their own travel mug.  really, in our shops' history, i can only recall just one customer even asking if we offer refills.  many times i offer "free fills" if i'm enthusiastic about a new coffee or product, or as i said before, if i want to offer a gesture of thanks to a customer that has stopped by several times throughout the course of the day or throughout the course of a 3-5 day event.  the only hard parts about my job can be severely long hours, and, trying to get others to realize i'm not "bitching" about my job--just merely discussing--like the heading up there says: all discussions/view discussions.

 

best,

 

sage

the coffee hound

John Berkness said:

because a twelve ounce coffee doesn't cost as much as a t-shirt, It's not as if the shop is losing money on a half priced refill. They're probobly making more money than if they didn't offer them, not to say that its substantial but pennies turn into dollars.

exe. customer: "do you offer refills" You: "no" Them: "ok bye"

where as my example Customer: "do you offer refills" Me: "yes, but they're half price" Them: "oh why not."

Sales are sales whether they are lackluster or not. and moving product as far as I know is and always has been a good thing.

A dont call me and my shop illegit for offering 1/2 priced refills

B if your going to bitch so much about a tiny thing like refills quit serving coffee, I heard somewhere that you don't have to offer the second T' Shirt half off if you work at American Apparell.

C Quit acting like your job is sooo hard. you work in the coffee industry for christ sake.

 

ok that was a bit much but lately I'm getting pretty annoyed by people bitching about thier "hard" jobs in the coffee industry, I know for a fact there are a ton of people out there ready for work who won't.

 

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by sage on January 9, 2011 at 5:18pm

hey john!  these days i take everything with a grain of salt!...in fact, i carry a salt-lick around with me at all times!  well, keep those rantings coming...i hear you on the early morning stuff...am into almost my 9th year, and for most of my events i'm up at 5:30, and seriously, i'm not a morning person!  i think its that morning redeye that gets me to roll out of the sack consistently!

thanks for the note...it'll be all good here in '11!

 

sage

the coffee hound

John Berkness said:

Happy New Year to you as well Sage. I hope my own ranting and bitching was taken with a grain of salt.I can see that my early morning posts bitching about bitching about bitching are trite at best. which brings me to the hardest part of my job. Coping with early mornings, I can't for the life of me begin to understand how i get up everyday. but the days keep coming and I keep waking up.

 

Keep waking up.

John

sage said:

john, happy new year to you!  thanks for taking a moment to reply to my discussion, i think.  wow, i didn't mean to come across as someone who was moaning or griping or complaining.  i rather like my "job", and like seeing and experiencing the achievements reached over the last near-decade, and believe i can say the same for the vast majority of our customers.  i was simply putting the discussion out there to compare what i do, or don't do, to other shops simply for perspective.  as i said in another post or blog on here somewhere, i think its great that each shopkeep can alter or tailor their particular product and service according to what suits them best, you know?  i did omit that at our shops we do offer a reasonable discount to those that want a refill in their own travel mug.  really, in our shops' history, i can only recall just one customer even asking if we offer refills.  many times i offer "free fills" if i'm enthusiastic about a new coffee or product, or as i said before, if i want to offer a gesture of thanks to a customer that has stopped by several times throughout the course of the day or throughout the course of a 3-5 day event.  the only hard parts about my job can be severely long hours, and, trying to get others to realize i'm not "bitching" about my job--just merely discussing--like the heading up there says: all discussions/view discussions.

 

best,

 

sage

the coffee hound

John Berkness said:

because a twelve ounce coffee doesn't cost as much as a t-shirt, It's not as if the shop is losing money on a half priced refill. They're probobly making more money than if they didn't offer them, not to say that its substantial but pennies turn into dollars.

exe. customer: "do you offer refills" You: "no" Them: "ok bye"

where as my example Customer: "do you offer refills" Me: "yes, but they're half price" Them: "oh why not."

Sales are sales whether they are lackluster or not. and moving product as far as I know is and always has been a good thing.

A dont call me and my shop illegit for offering 1/2 priced refills

B if your going to bitch so much about a tiny thing like refills quit serving coffee, I heard somewhere that you don't have to offer the second T' Shirt half off if you work at American Apparell.

C Quit acting like your job is sooo hard. you work in the coffee industry for christ sake.

 

ok that was a bit much but lately I'm getting pretty annoyed by people bitching about thier "hard" jobs in the coffee industry, I know for a fact there are a ton of people out there ready for work who won't.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Stickman on January 15, 2011 at 12:31am

Occasional, discretionary and appreciated freebies - yup. 

Regular discounts - nope.

I have a few thoughts on this.

1)  offering discounts on coffee does a dis-service to Origin.  Spend a day picking and pulping and hulling and sorting and grading beans at origin.  Put in the labour then come home and tell that story to your customers.  When I came back from my first trip to origin I realized that our inneficient espresso grinder spilled about the same in 1 day as what one person can produce in 4 hours of hard work at the source.

If coffee was grown in North America it would cost more than wine or beer or gas or bottled water.  One of the main reasons we have cheap products in our parts of the world is because there are people somewhere else who are exchanging their life energy for far less money than we would accept.

2)   most cafe owners survive on 10%.  Some are luckier, some aren't but 10% is what most owners work with.  The other 90% covers their rent, staff, beans, milk, paper cups, lids, condiments, electricity, broken china, dish soap and toilet paper...  Why would an owner offer a discount that negates all the profit and most of the cost? 

3)   It would sometimes bug me when a frequent customer card was redeemed for the 10th free cup by someone with the attitude of, "I earned this."  Our FC cards were never about earned rewards, they were a way to say 'thanks!'  They were supposed to be a gift, a kind gesture.

When our shop phased out the frequent customer cards we initiated a program to donate directly to coffee industry charities.  Free stuff is nice in the wealthy parts of the world but in the developing nations it can actually DO something.  We're still giving and the owner, the staff and the customers all feel better about it.

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Permalink Reply by sage on January 15, 2011 at 8:35pm

hey stickman, happy new year!, and thanks for contributing here to the discussion.  wow, i never traced my thoughts about this topic back to origin, and the workers involved.  really, i hadn't followed the link back to its beginning, so to speak.  thanks so much for bringing the most important aspect of the whole coffee scene to light...i appreciate that, and will keep that piece of education tucked away in my pee-brain!  i'm curious whether you personally spent time working/observing at origin?...when? where?  would be great if you wrote a piece somewhere here on bx to share any of those experiences.  not to sound dumb, but i wonder sometimes if families/workers at origin brew coffees from other regions other than their own?...and, i wonder what brewing methods they use at home!...do they take the time to do a pourover, or a french press, or espresso pot, or what?!  obviously, i don't get out much!

 

thanks,

sage

Stickman said:

Occasional, discretionary and appreciated freebies - yup. 

Regular discounts - nope.

I have a few thoughts on this.

1)  offering discounts on coffee does a dis-service to Origin.  Spend a day picking and pulping and hulling and sorting and grading beans at origin.  Put in the labour then come home and tell that story to your customers.  When I came back from my first trip to origin I realized that our inneficient espresso grinder spilled about the same in 1 day as what one person can produce in 4 hours of hard work at the source.

If coffee was grown in North America it would cost more than wine or beer or gas or bottled water.  One of the main reasons we have cheap products in our parts of the world is because there are people somewhere else who are exchanging their life energy for far less money than we would accept.

2)   most cafe owners survive on 10%.  Some are luckier, some aren't but 10% is what most owners work with.  The other 90% covers their rent, staff, beans, milk, paper cups, lids, condiments, electricity, broken china, dish soap and toilet paper...  Why would an owner offer a discount that negates all the profit and most of the cost? 

3)   It would sometimes bug me when a frequent customer card was redeemed for the 10th free cup by someone with the attitude of, "I earned this."  Our FC cards were never about earned rewards, they were a way to say 'thanks!'  They were supposed to be a gift, a kind gesture.

When our shop phased out the frequent customer cards we initiated a program to donate directly to coffee industry charities.  Free stuff is nice in the wealthy parts of the world but in the developing nations it can actually DO something.  We're still giving and the owner, the staff and the customers all feel better about it.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Chase Mann on January 20, 2011 at 8:26pm

Stickman, I'm so glad I read your post.

 

I was getting ready to give a lecture on how loyal customers should be rewarded, because unlike the "American Apparel" analogy so many people used in the beginning of this discussion, how often does a customer DAILY buy a t-shirt? Not much, that's why they have to have periodic specials and sales, it's inherent in the industry that you're in ... and I really wanted to argue the point for the coffee customer's reward of their loyalty and patronage to a particular establishment.

 

But Stickman, you opened my eyes to an epiphany and you're absolutely right that it should be about giving back to the origin. It would be easy for a shop owner to turn a percentage of sales into a donation to a deserving origin instead of giving out loyalty punches ... I think   HOPE that customers would really like that idea as well.

 

Thank you for giving me something to put a lot more thought into :-)

 

Cheers,

Chase.

Stickman said:

Occasional, discretionary and appreciated freebies - yup. 

Regular discounts - nope.

I have a few thoughts on this.

1)  offering discounts on coffee does a dis-service to Origin.  Spend a day picking and pulping and hulling and sorting and grading beans at origin.  Put in the labour then come home and tell that story to your customers.  When I came back from my first trip to origin I realized that our inneficient espresso grinder spilled about the same in 1 day as what one person can produce in 4 hours of hard work at the source.

If coffee was grown in North America it would cost more than wine or beer or gas or bottled water.  One of the main reasons we have cheap products in our parts of the world is because there are people somewhere else who are exchanging their life energy for far less money than we would accept.

2)   most cafe owners survive on 10%.  Some are luckier, some aren't but 10% is what most owners work with.  The other 90% covers their rent, staff, beans, milk, paper cups, lids, condiments, electricity, broken china, dish soap and toilet paper...  Why would an owner offer a discount that negates all the profit and most of the cost? 

3)   It would sometimes bug me when a frequent customer card was redeemed for the 10th free cup by someone with the attitude of, "I earned this."  Our FC cards were never about earned rewards, they were a way to say 'thanks!'  They were supposed to be a gift, a kind gesture.

When our shop phased out the frequent customer cards we initiated a program to donate directly to coffee industry charities.  Free stuff is nice in the wealthy parts of the world but in the developing nations it can actually DO something.  We're still giving and the owner, the staff and the customers all feel better about it.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Stickman on January 21, 2011 at 7:06am

The customers seem to really appreciate the gesture on their behalf.  And when I make one of my infrequent trips to origin they do love to near about it.

Chase Mann said:

Stickman, I'm so glad I read your post.

 

I was getting ready to give a lecture on how loyal customers should be rewarded, because unlike the "American Apparel" analogy so many people used in the beginning of this discussion, how often does a customer DAILY buy a t-shirt? Not much, that's why they have to have periodic specials and sales, it's inherent in the industry that you're in ... and I really wanted to argue the point for the coffee customer's reward of their loyalty and patronage to a particular establishment.

 

But Stickman, you opened my eyes to an epiphany and you're absolutely right that it should be about giving back to the origin. It would be easy for a shop owner to turn a percentage of sales into a donation to a deserving origin instead of giving out loyalty punches ... I think   HOPE that customers would really like that idea as well.

 

Thank you for giving me something to put a lot more thought into :-)

 

Cheers,

Chase.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Sheli maciel on January 21, 2011 at 9:22am

I work at an allegro coffee bar in a whole foods market. We brew larger amounts of coffee into airpots all day. We don't have as much volume as a traditional coffee shop so we offer free refills on drip coffee as long as the customer or team member keeps the same cup. We end up throwing out so much coffee every 30 mins that it just seems like the 'delightful' thing to do. We offer a 25 cent discount on all beverages when a customer brings their own cup or if they reuse their paper cup. This is the only way to receive a discounted espresso drink. Once they require a new cup, it's a whole new full priced beverage. We also have a pretty large spoilage pool that we almost never use up so this might not be a feasible for a traditional coffee shop.

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Permalink Reply by sage on January 21, 2011 at 9:55am

thanks for your comments, sheli!  seems like what wf is doing is the right measure for that particular setting.  i used to work in specialty with whole foods prior to their grand opening and about 2 years afterwords at their winston-salem, nc., location.  they had a seperate espresso bar, but in my department we did all the ordering, display, and general upkeep of the allegro brand.  in fact, during my first couple of years as an indie mobile coffee vendor, i ordered all my coffees through allegro.  (for a larger roaster/supplier, i was mostly happy with their product--i'd be open to hearing what others here have to say about the allegro brand/quality).  liked your note about "...it just seems like the delightful thing to do."

 

have a good one!,

 

sage

the coffee hound

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