Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on April 15, 2010 at 6:40pm

from having used the k-10 WBC in my shop over the last 5 months, (and you'll definitely want the WBC), i highly recommend it. i still have to get a review up for it at some point, but it's a hoss of a grinder and the mouthfeel of the espresso is just so syrupy. totally takes away that bright harsh profile you get from a super jolly. i dislike the v30's (too messy, flat burrs, clumping) but haven't used a super caimano.

get the k-10 WBC. you won't regret it. chriscoffee.com has a good price on em too

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/coffee/commercialgrinders/compa...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mike McGinness on April 15, 2010 at 8:38pm

Agree flat burr grinders tend to accentuate brightness compared to conical. However, that does not mean even if pulling a SO like even a bright Kenya or Ethiopia the shot will be harsh if you properly grind and dose and appropriate shot temp and timing and volume. We pull just such SO's all the time with SJ's and Majors.

It may indeed be easier to pull said shots with a large conical versus large flat burr, but easier does not necessarily mean better shot. BTW, even the lowly Rocky tied the Robur overall in shot quality beating it some rounds in the H-B Titan Grinder Shoot out.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Joona Suominen on April 15, 2010 at 11:37pm

I haven't tried the k-10 WBC but it seems to get compared to a Robur a lot still being quite a bit cheaper which does make it tempting. Someone who knows the k10 inside out could tell if it stashes ground coffee inside like robur. If so, it's not the best grinder for home. Is there a k-10 with timer available?

We used to have the k-30 at our shop. The portafilter holder is excellent and really nice to use. It distributes the coffee to top end of the portafilter and there was some clumping but neither of them was really a problem. Besides mahlkönig has released a new version of k-30 which should address some of the issues mentioned. As for the messiness.. It's one of the cleanest/easiest grinders I've seen.

Large volumes are where k30 just doesn't manage. Despite it has won some kind of design-prize it is built like a thermos bottle. Once it get's hot, it stays hot. The motors is too fast in relation to the smallish burrs.

I'm having timer modded Anfim's super caimano as my home/competition grinder and I'm pretty satisfied with it. It's small and light and easy to move around. There's no clumping and the distribution of the doser is good. It's also quite economical compared to other big grinders.

You should check out Mazzer's Major E as well. It's one nice grinder.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on April 16, 2010 at 5:24am

the k-10 wbc has a little plastic guard at the top of the doser to meet ETL standards which is easily removable (pop the plastic collar cover off and remove 2 screws). once the guard is gone for good, you can vacuum / sweep the 5-6g of grounds that accumulate in the chute. that's the only place on a k-10 i've seen grounds accumulate.

i have a non-timered doserless k-10 that has a lot more staling problems, but that's partially because i use it for decaf. there are timered versions but you're looking at $500 more for those.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ryan Soeder on April 20, 2010 at 5:05pm

First of all, thanks for the responses, guys.

I had my mind all made up to go with the K-10 but had the chance to put this question to a well-respected coffee professional who described the K-10 as "cheap, plastic trash." He recommended the Anfim, siting reliability and consistency issues with the K-10 and ending the conversation with, "If you have the opportunity to put an Anfim in your house, you put an Anfim in your house."

Have any of you had a bad experience with a Compak? I do really like the Super Caimano but I have a hard time letting go of those conical burrs.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jared Rutledge on April 20, 2010 at 7:48pm

what? cheap plastic trash? the only plastic on a k-10 is the grounds tray, the doser cover (which i always leave off anyways) and part of the collar cover! the thing weights like 30 lbs! how on earth is that cheap plastic trash? maybe he meant the normal k-10.

get the k-10 WBC. once you have it in your possession, you will be posting like crazy thanking us. if you still doubt, drive down to asheville and you can play around on my k-10.

and by the way, i was turned on to the compak k-10 WBC by, of all people, Rob Forsyth, who's on the certification committee for the WBC and used to be the president of the Australasian Specialty Coffee Association. so i don't know which industry professional you were talking to, but i'll trust Rob for my money's worth.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Denise Smith on April 20, 2010 at 8:14pm

I like our K-10 WBC conical grinder! We had a bit of a hopper problem but they fixed it no problem! The only other issue was when one of them started heating up because it is not mounted straight, however I believe it may have been because of our employees turning it upside down when we first go it... Do Not turn up or over the motor mounts from a collar/ neck area and if turned up it can off set the motor. I can't fault the maker on this one they have been very supportive and even called to check up on things after we first opened. We own 2 of them. We made the hot head the decaf so it is fine now.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ryan Soeder on April 28, 2010 at 5:55pm

Alright, I know it's been a while but I'm still in grinder decision lockdown crisis mode. I feel like a little kid having to choose which parent to live with.

I'm inclined toward the Compak and the only thing that gives me pause is the complete void of information regarding the "in-the-cup" results from the Anfim. I've spent countless hours reading every forum thread and article I can find about each grinder and everyone is talking about how accurate/consistent the Super Caimano is but no one seems to be talking about the "in-the-cup" results. Every now and then, someone will casually remark on how they would put it up next to the Robur but no one focuses on this.

Does anyone here have experience on both the Compak K10 WBC and the Anfim Super Caimano v2? The Super Caimano has a great doser and timer but if the shots it produces are generally inferior to the K10, those are niceties I'd be willing to forgo. On the other hand, if the shots are on par with one another, I'd much rather have it all in one package.

I could easily chalk this up to the difference between flat and conical burrs except that there are mutterings about how the Caimano burr set may act in such a way that it rivals the signature syrupy body of the big conicals.

Any thoughts?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jackson Ball on April 29, 2010 at 12:39am

I have a K30 WBC in my house. I have a K10 WBC being delivered tomorrow. I can give you some side by side comparison soon.

Ryan Soeder said:

Alright, I know it's been a while but I'm still in grinder decision lockdown crisis mode. I feel like a little kid having to choose which parent to live with.

I'm inclined toward the Compak and the only thing that gives me pause is the complete void of information regarding the "in-the-cup" results from the Anfim. I've spent countless hours reading every forum thread and article I can find about each grinder and everyone is talking about how accurate/consistent the Super Caimano is but no one seems to be talking about the "in-the-cup" results. Every now and then, someone will casually remark on how they would put it up next to the Robur but no one focuses on this.

Does anyone here have experience on both the Compak K10 WBC and the Anfim Super Caimano v2? The Super Caimano has a great doser and timer but if the shots it produces are generally inferior to the K10, those are niceties I'd be willing to forgo. On the other hand, if the shots are on par with one another, I'd much rather have it all in one package.

I could easily chalk this up to the difference between flat and conical burrs except that there are mutterings about how the Caimano burr set may act in such a way that it rivals the signature syrupy body of the big conicals.

Any thoughts?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Chris Birkett on August 3, 2010 at 7:54pm

Any chance you could update the thread with your thoughts on the K30 vs. K10 for home use, Jackson? I recently picked up a Baratza Vario to use as a decaf/secondary grinder for my K10, and I was so sold on the timed aspect and lack of waste that I've pretty much used it exclusively for the last few months. I've been giving some serious thought to swapping the K10 for a K30.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jackson Ball on August 4, 2010 at 6:55am

Chris,

Since I've had my K10, I've been spoiled rotten by it's amazing grind quality - so beware, I'll be the first to admit I am biased by it. I change coffee's all the time so the K30 was not a good match for me. I can single dose with my k10 which is nice, because I drink 2-3 different coffee's a day. The problems with changing coffee and keeping beans in the hopper (w/the k30) was the first big deal breaker for me as a home user. If you like to run a couple pounds of coffee straight before switching, the K30 might be a great grinder for you. It is very quick, silent and efficient. Just know that it takes several pounds to break in the burrs and it likes to have beans in the hopper for it to function/dose properly. I used a dosing funnel from Orphan Espresso with my K30 and barely had a grain of coffee spill out of the porta-filter so it was very tidy when used that way. I do feel that the grind quality of the K10 is noticeably superior to the K30. I would say the grind from the k30 is better than the baratza vario, but I couldn't go back to either now that I'm used to my k10. Of course, to each his own - the k30 still makes a darn fine cup and is top notch at what it does. Hope that helps, Jackson

Chris Birkett said:

Any chance you could update the thread with your thoughts on the K30 vs. K10 for home use, Jackson? I recently picked up a Baratza Vario to use as a decaf/secondary grinder for my K10, and I was so sold on the timed aspect and lack of waste that I've pretty much used it exclusively for the last few months. I've been giving some serious thought to swapping the K10 for a K30.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on August 4, 2010 at 8:55am

Ryan-
I see that I'm late to the game but I did not see the post when it originally was posted, only now.

Whomever told you that the Compak K-10WBC is "cheap, plastic trash" is someone who is ignorant of the grinder, and I don't care how "well respected" you say this person is - in fact, tell us this persons name so I can respect that person less.

I've been using the Compak K-10 since 2006 and it has been a workhorse. It quickly replaced our Mazzer Majors as our "primary" grinder and I specified the K-10 WBC for the new Spro Hampden that we opened this past March as our primary grinder. The K-10 is a hardworking, reliable and proven performer that's not quite "loved" by some of these "well respected" "professionals" because they're pushing some other grinder that they think is "hip."

I care less about "hip" and "cool" and more about quality of grind, reliability, performance and consistency.

The other grinder you mentioned (Anfim Super Caimano) deserves a little bit of history for you to appreciate it's position within our craft today. Clean dosing has always been an issue in a shop environment, but dosing really came to the forefront at the WBC/USBC. Specifically, the problem of the Mazzers to "throw" ground coffee to the left and spilling onto the counter - which results in more work and burning more time, or lower scores in competition.

Competitive baristas back in 2004-2005 were looking for a grinder that would eliminate the dosing "problem" - enter the Anfim. I believe it was Philip Search (the guy who really pushed for grinder timer development) and Vince Piccolo who discovered that the Anfim doser dropped the coffee straight down - eliminating many of the dosing problems.

In other words, the Anfim only came to light because of it's doser. It was never a contender because of grind quality - grind quality was secondary.

While all grinders are compromised, the Anfim is more compromised than others. 1) it uses flat burrs as opposed to the greater consistency conical burrs like those found in a K-10, 2) it uses stepped grind settings. The first compromise isn't too bad. I've used and liked Mazzer Major grinders for years. However, the second problem is one that completely eliminates the grinder from consideration.

Quite simply, Stepped Grind Adjustment is INFERIOR to the "infinite" friction adjusters found on the Compak and Mazzer grinders. Invariably, the grind you need will be exactly the point BETWEEN grinder steps. It is why there was such a backlash when Mahlkonig introduced the K30 - eventually, they had to relent and modify the K30 to friction adjust.

A few years ago, Philip Search posted to Coffeed.com what I joking call his "white paper" - a diatribe defending the Anfim against critics (like myself), giving reasons why the Anfim was superior to all grinders and why the stepped grinder was not only not a problem but better than other grinders. He argued that the stepped adjust was not a problem because you could simply adjust the grinder timer plus or minus to compensate. In other words, his argument was that you could simply use a little more or a little less coffee to compensate for the problem.

This was the most laughable thing I have ever read in my eight years in this industry. Ludicrous comes to mind. Evolution brought us away from stepped adjustment and this guy is trying to tell us that it's better. Ridiculous and a complete load of BS. Bottom line: all grinders are compromised in some way. The point is that we need to understand those compromises, work around them and continue to improve. The Anfim hasn't improved its' design since 49th Parallel introduced it to the marketplace (the K30 quickly changed to friction). To my mind, the Anfim is the poor choice. Better off with a Mazzer Major than the Anfim.

• ▶ Reply

▶ Reply to Discussion

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page