Suggestions for New Espresso Machine
Hi there. I am looking to upgrade the espresso machine in my shop. We are extremely busy most of the year and our two group Astra (8 years old) just isn't cutting it anymore. I need a three group machine that will support a heavy traffic flow. Because I am already running an Astra, I have looked at their Mega III. Does anyone have experience with that machine? Any recommendations for another three group machine? I am just now starting to look around so any and all help is greatly appreciated! Please and thanks!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on
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Don't waste your time or money. Buy this machine:
La Marzocco GB5 3EE
An absolute workhorse and one of the best machines available today.
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Permalink Reply by Alex E. Guzmán on
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Synesso Hydra. Hands down.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Shipley on
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Simonelli Aruelia Plus, Rancilio Class 9, La Marzocco GB5. I would get Volumetric versions of any of those machines. Synesso is Awesome no doubt about it a great machine but unless your clientele is sophisticated/savvy enough to appreciate it there just isn't an ROI on them in comparison to the other the other mid to high end machines. If you're in an area where the Synesso name will give you a competitive advantage and bring new customers into your shop then by all means get one but if the only people you'll impress are baristas then save your money. You may also think hard about upgrading your grinder as that can make a bigger difference than the espresso machine in terms of output and speed of service.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Hoeppner on
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If you are able, go to a few different shops that run different machines. If the owners are nice people, they'll talk to you about their machines and maybe let you play around a bit. I'm running a GB5 AV in one of my shops and it's incredible. If you're talking about high volumes, a volumetric machine will be amazing. You won't have to babysit your shots at all. If you go to a 4 group GB5, you get two brew boilers and you can set different temps to your left 2 groups and the right 2 groups. That's great if you have a couple espresso options. If you don't, it doesn't matter.
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Permalink Reply by Scott on
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In addition to those mentioned above, just for comparison, look at a Rio as well. Good solid machines.
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Permalink Reply by Dennis McQuoid on
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Find out who gives the best service in your area.
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Permalink Reply by Cedric on
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We just got a La Marzocco Strada in our shop. Before that, we were working with the Linea. Pressure profiling espresso with the strada is great, but we don't have the time to be doing that for each espresso that we pull. Such a waste to be pulling beautiful espresso and dropping it in syrups. I felt like a begginer on my first hour on the Strada as i had to stop and think what I had to do. Plus texturing milk for capps, flat whites, and maccs in smaller 12oz pitcher took some time to getting used to.
Also with all the options for machines, one factor to include is looking for someone reliable and knowledgeable to fix it. You don't want to get a machine and find out parts for it take 3 days to get to you.
Keep us updated on what you end up getting.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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As a busy shop, your primary considerations for your espresso machine are probably:
Good shot quality.
Production capacity + stability under high demand.
Ease of use.
Reliability/low downtime.
In my opinion, too many espresso machines currently on the market come with extra bells and whistles. Variable-temperature groups, pressure profiling, touchscreen controls, LED accent lighting... Though some may add actual value to espresso labs and progressive artisan cafes, they come with a price - extra operational complexity, reduced reliability, and extra repair time and cost. Considering the great shot quality you can achieve without these features, I'd steer clear of any temperature or pressure profiling machines. A volumetric dosing machine is as much automation as you probably want. I'd steer clear of the auto-steam wands too (unless, like on the Aurelia, they are a "3rd wand" that can be easily pushed to the back and ignored).
Stick with the major brands that are out in your marketplace, and those that are well-supported. Any decent tech should be able to eventually troubleshoot and special-order parts for oddball machines, but you'll pay - both in extra labor, possible return trips, and extra costs. Unless you are in a market that is dominated by junk machines, consider going with the flow.
On that subject... are you happy with your current tech? If so, ask them which machines they feel are the best made, most reliable, and make the best shots at your sales volume. Better yet, ask them to suggest a couple of machines and discuss pros and cons of each. Make sure they know that you are just starting your search, so there's no expectation of a sale soon (and so they don't quote based on manufacturers temporary promotional pricing). If your roaster is a separate entity, also ask them what they recommend and why. Neither of these recommendations will necessarily be your final answer, but they are useful data points.
When it comes time to buy your machine, consider buying it from your tech (especially if its a machine they've recommended). Chances are good that they'll be price-competitive, and you'll get their very best support.
The point about fast grinders is well made, by the way. If you are using something the size and speed of a Super Jolly, you could see huge benefits by making a change here. Mazzer Major, Compak K-10 or Mazzer Robur will all be huge positive steps. One of these can be purchased right now for a speed boost on your current machine, though if you package it with a new espresso machine you'll probably get better pricing.
Last thought... if your volume is high enough, consider a pair of 2-group machines instead of one 3 or 4 group. This is more expensive and creates some extra complexity from a space and utilities standpoint, but you may be looking at needing to upgrade wiring anyway. Remember that larger machines draw more power which at least means a larger breaker and receptacle and might also mean fishing new wiring. The big plus side of the two-machine approach is that you get unparalleled reliability - odds are that even if one machine totally goes down you can still use the other.
When customers in my market ask, I recommend machines from Nuova Simonelli, La Marzocco, and Astoria. Hard to go wrong with the volumetric version of the "better or best" machine from any of these manufacturers, assuming they are well-supported.
Hope that helps.
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Permalink Reply by olivier dutil on
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i have try 3 machine in heavy traffic (300 to 450 customer a day)
nuova simolelli aurelia, well , it nice to work on but nothing special.
la mazzoco gb5 ee well very nice and simple , never had probleme with it and event at 5 to 10 lb per hours always been happy with it. and the timer is a nice option. i also got some ligth added to it , it is kind of dark under it.
synesso cyncra, well i love to work on that machine, super stable and very well design for work space , i love the cold touch steam wand witch is a big minus on the gb5 and i love the open group head. i just wish they came with a build in timer.
like Brady said , Grinder grinder grinder, this make a huge difference!!!! work on 3 grinder
mazzer robur! very nice but one big complain from all my barista , it can be hard to adjust, (the adjustment can be hard to move just by a little , i put 2 pin one on each side so you can use you both hand to adjust it,)
AMFIM SC V2,0 . one word , it is crap. the adjustment is really imprecise and to slow , barista was to much time waiting for the grinder.
i just swap the amfim in my second shop for the new Compak k-10 FRESH , and WOW , this is a grinder , the price is right as well , i add some problem with it at first , the micro adjustment knob was moving everything it was grinding but after talking with compak we reallize that the manual was outdated and that u can lock the knob with a little allen key witch solve the problem for now, compak will send a new redesign adjustment assembly that solve this problem, really this grinder improve the barista speed by 10 % i am sure.,
i would said before buying a new machine get a compak k-10 fresh , try it and chance is are that you won't need to buy a new machine
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I have a Nuova Simonelli Aurelia 3 group Semi. Well, actually it's supposed to be a 3 group, but only 2 groups have been working for a really long time (almost from installation) and I have not been getting taken care of by service. I've made countless calls with little to no response. So I would suggest you look elsewhere for a machine. Seems the solenoid switches have problems that cause leaking. I actually had one explode, shutting down the machine for a couple days.
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Perhaps you could clarify this situation a little, Dennis? First is this the same group you were having bizarre issues with in this thread? Second, are you suggesting that people avoid Nuova Simonelli machines, or your service company?
The point you made a couple of posts back about good service was very well made. I'd hoped that your tech would have gotten to the root of your issues by now. There is something very strange happening in your store (or perhaps something unusual happened to your machine) that is difficult to diagnose by remote control. Very disappointing to hear that you are still struggling with this machine.
I would like to address the idea that the solenoid valves used by Simonelli have problems. First - there are only a couple of major solenoid valve manufacturers used in commercial espresso machines. You'll find the exact same valves that are used on the Aurelia on a number of other machines. Also, every manufacturer can have an issue of a random bizarre component failure, which is what it sounds like you have experienced. I service at least a dozen Aurelias in my market, plus several more Appias and MACs, and have never found their valves (or those of any other major manufacturer for that matter) to be problematic.
I would like to know more about what happened to your machine, btw, if you'd be willing to message me about it (or post in the other thread). Don't want to derail this thread.
For the record, I'm not trying to suggest that your experience hasn't been frustrating or real, or that you shouldn't share it. I just don't think it is very representative of the reliability of the line.
Dennis McQuoid said:I have a Nuova Simonelli Aurelia 3 group Semi. Well, actually it's supposed to be a 3 group, but only 2 groups have been working for a really long time (almost from installation) and I have not been getting taken care of by service. I've made countless calls with little to no response. So I would suggest you look elsewhere for a machine. Seems the solenoid switches have problems that cause leaking. I actually had one explode, shutting down the machine for a couple days.
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Permalink Reply by David Myers on
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Mega III rated at 720 cups an hour which translates into 12 shots per minute. I would love to watch any cafe that could produce that volume during normal traffic.
Unless you are going to work on your own machine and carry parts, having access to an excellent service tech who not only knows your machine but stocks the parts is really key.
And don't forget about the water. When you're changing over machines, it's the best time to re-evaluate and re-test your water.
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