Starbucks & local/regional chains fail in quality!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kait Berreckman on
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Something definitely gets lost in chain operations. It's like playing telephone with the quality. At the end of the line someone always ends up confused. Whether it's a new barista who's being trained improperly by someone else who was trained improperly by someone else who was trying to find the fastest way to make a latte instead of the best or a customer who is being brainwashed to think a cappuccino is a disgusting mound of undrinkable froth choking their poor espresso.
While Starbucks has made some huge leaps for coffee by making it acceptable to pay $4 for a coffee, and alerting the consumer to the fact that coffee comes from different places and has multiple, varying flavor profiles... specialty coffee puts way more quality into those $4. Keep in mind, the goal of chain shops is purely financial. They understand that coffee is a drug and the more convenient it is for the user to get that drug, the more money they will make.
What's good for specialty coffee in Omaha? I'm originally from NE... just curious. :)
I used to get Starbucks beans all the time to make in my press (I had a friend who was a manager) and I agree, they're coffee is way better out of store.
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Permalink Reply by Matias Zeledon on
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Well, the problem is compounded: lack of knowledge, lack of devotion for coffee and under par coffee as an ingredient. First of all, the staff at starbucks is made up of a good, knowledgeable person per shift surrounded by a bunch of kids that dont know a thing about coffee. I have tested this and gone in SB locations to ask tough questions about Origins and the helpers stand around while the guy that knows answers the question.
The kids rely too much on the machine, it is like flipping burgers for them and anybody who knows the process understands that not all espresso can be pumped the same way.
Finally, the coffee at SB is bad, as simple as that. They used to buy a lot of Costa Rican coffee to flavor their blends but are now using less costa rican for less expensive origins. And you can't produce an outstanding cup of coffee with substandard coffee.
If we assume that SB has become the Walmart of coffees, and i think we can assume safely in this case, then there are plenty of opportunities in coffee for the very small operations that focus on good quality coffee, knowledge and great friendly service.
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Permalink Reply by Mystic Brew on
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There are only few places in Omaha, NE (in my opinion) that provide good espresso: Delice in Midtown Crossing and some fine dining establishments. This is why I make my own.
Kait Berreckman said:Something definitely gets lost in chain operations. It's like playing telephone with the quality. At the end of the line someone always ends up confused. Whether it's a new barista who's being trained improperly by someone else who was trained improperly by someone else who was trying to find the fastest way to make a latte instead of the best or a customer who is being brainwashed to think a cappuccino is a disgusting mound of undrinkable froth choking their poor espresso.
While Starbucks has made some huge leaps for coffee by making it acceptable to pay $4 for a coffee, and alerting the consumer to the fact that coffee comes from different places and has multiple, varying flavor profiles... specialty coffee puts way more quality into those $4. Keep in mind, the goal of chain shops is purely financial. They understand that coffee is a drug and the more convenient it is for the user to get that drug, the more money they will make.
What's good for specialty coffee in Omaha? I'm originally from NE... just curious. :)
I used to get Starbucks beans all the time to make in my press (I had a friend who was a manager) and I agree, they're coffee is way better out of store.
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I have to agree with Todd, here... everyone knows Starbucks in not specialty coffee and making some high school employee feel bad about that is not going to change their business model. Just enjoy the good coffee that's out there.
Todd Campbell said:
You go in to Starbucks around town to drill people with questions? I mean I understand wanting to converse with people but you only did that to prove a point. That the undereducated employees at Starbucks don't know as much as a barista at an independent cafe. That's like going to a country that has low literacy rates and asking them to read the book you just wrote. Coffee snobbery's not cool, my friend.
Matias Zeledon said:Well, the problem is compounded: lack of knowledge, lack of devotion for coffee and under par coffee as an ingredient. First of all, the staff at starbucks is made up of a good, knowledgeable person per shift surrounded by a bunch of kids that dont know a thing about coffee. I have tested this and gone in SB locations to ask tough questions about Origins and the helpers stand around while the guy that knows answers the question.
The kids rely too much on the machine, it is like flipping burgers for them and anybody who knows the process understands that not all espresso can be pumped the same way.
Finally, the coffee at SB is bad, as simple as that. They used to buy a lot of Costa Rican coffee to flavor their blends but are now using less costa rican for less expensive origins. And you can't produce an outstanding cup of coffee with substandard coffee.
If we assume that SB has become the Walmart of coffees, and i think we can assume safely in this case, then there are plenty of opportunities in coffee for the very small operations that focus on good quality coffee, knowledge and great friendly service.
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Todd, sorry that you misinterpreted my message. The fact of the matter is that they are not properly trained, and that is not their fault, but the corporation's.
The questions came about bec i was starting to supply a coffee shop in NC which had about three SB around. So i did a bit of market research, (does that make it right for you?). Since i was the exclusive supplier of the coffee shop, i wanted to see how the "advantage" of exclusively serving Dota/Tarrazu coffee worked. That is why i asked. And yes, i was blown away by the fact that they did not even know what Tarrazu was when a Tarrazu coffee had been twice the Black Apron special in the last few years. I was also blown away by the fact that they could not tell me if Tarrazu was available when it was in fact in the shelf, and SB placed a Costa Rica Tarrazu blend at Walmart shops in the area.
Finally, i am far from a barista or a coffee snob, i am a coffee farmer and roaster who would enjoy people in the industry to at least acknowledge my origin. Is like you meeting somebody in CA who has never heard of NY. Wouldn't you be blown away?!
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Kait, not sure that i understand when you say that SB IS NOT specialty coffee. What do you mean, that they are not in reality or that they dont pretend to be specialty coffee.
If there is a reference point for the general public about specialty coffee it is SB.
Plus, SB is (or was, in its good times), the largest buyer of Tarrazu coffee and the largest single buyer of Costa Rican coffee. If that does not make you part of the specialty coffee world then i dont know what would.
PS: i think you and todd assume that i enjoyed the fact that the employees could not answer my questions, but i did not.
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Oh internet, dang you! You're always making us misinterpret each other! Matias, you're right, that is what I assumed, my apologies.
I'm used to hearing the term "specialty coffee" in reference to a coffee shop that offers a traditional menu, and is staffed with baristas who really know what they're doing, so I think the baristas are the main reason I, personally, don't consider Starbucks specialty coffee. The Specialty Coffee Association of America (www.scaa.org) has a ton of standards, etc. for coffee at all stages and Starbucks probably meets a lot of the standards until the coffee gets to the baristas. Like I said before, Starbucks has done a lot for coffee by promoting fair trade, bringing the language of espresso to the general public, and making it acceptable to pay $4 for a latte. So, I think it is a reference point for the general public and I hope it's more of a gateway into all the amazing coffee being made at smaller, more traditional places. But, it's very cool that they use the Clover.
I also just have a mean gut reaction to chains, but Starbucks is not all bad, you're right. On the other hand, I knew someone who managed a Starbucks and the way she was consumed with every other aspect of the business EXCEPT the coffee was a real turn-off for me.
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Nothing better to end a topic than to get the benefit of the doubt, tks Kait.
I constantly tell my customers that i am walking on the path that SB created but it is a little disappointing that they dont train their staff better.
A lot of times my in-store customers dont want to order online and wait a few days to get their shipment so i always refer them to the smallest coffee shop/roaster they can find, it works 99% of the time.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Caragay on
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I don't know why you guys are getting worked up over Starbucks. They are doing a perfectly excellent job.
And who is to say that their baristas aren't properly trained? Are you running a company that pulls $100 million per year in clear profit?
The quality of Starbucks is commensurate for what it offers. This is akin to complaining that Applebees doesn't have the "quality" of whatever locally focused restaurant is in your area. It's a waste of time.
Analyze Starbucks for what it can offer you and take the advantage where you can. Too many operators are merely offering Starbucks alternatives rather than something truly different and compelling. In other words, most companies are no better than Starbucks.
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Jay, i dont run a $100mm profit company and i am not going to say that i would not like it. But today, I am very proud of running a company that produces and sells $500K in oustanding coffee per year and every day gets emails from customers remarking how incredibly good the coffee is and how rewarding our social mission is. That definitely feels like one hundred million bucks.
Matias
Jay Caragay said:
I don't know why you guys are getting worked up over Starbucks. They are doing a perfectly excellent job.
And who is to say that their baristas aren't properly trained? Are you running a company that pulls $100 million per year in clear profit?
The quality of Starbucks is commensurate for what it offers. This is akin to complaining that Applebees doesn't have the "quality" of whatever locally focused restaurant is in your area. It's a waste of time.
Analyze Starbucks for what it can offer you and take the advantage where you can. Too many operators are merely offering Starbucks alternatives rather than something truly different and compelling. In other words, most companies are no better than Starbucks.
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Obviously Matias, you missed the point and let your ego get in the way.
I don't care how much money you're making or how good your coffee is - that isn't germane to the thread.
Starbucks has their business down. That's what we're talking about. You waste your time getting worked up over how "bad" Starbucks is.
You sit there, with your $500K company and your tiny staff and then go on about Starbucks? I'd like to see how your company would operate with nearly 10,000 locations and 150,000 employees worldwide.
But since you want to talk about you and your company, does your profit percentage compare to Starbucks? Are you pulling 1% true profit out of each location - after reinvesting the other 14%? Are you keeping labor costs at 18% or coffee revenue at 55%?
I'm no lover of Starbucks, but the ridiculous bashing is just boring me. While the coffee isn't the best in the world, there are aspects of the Starbucks model worthy of emulation.
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