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Permalink Reply by Nathanael May on April 12, 2011 at 4:02pm

You might as well start with food critic Jonathan Gold's definition from 2008:

 

"The first wave of American coffee culture was probably the 19th-century surge that put Folgers on every table, and the second was the proliferation, starting in the 1960s at Peet's and moving smartly through the Starbucks grande decaf latte, of espresso drinks and regionally labeled coffee. We are now in the third wave of coffee connoisseurship, where beans are sourced from farms instead of countries, roasting is about bringing out rather than incinerating the unique characteristics of each bean, and the flavor is clean and hard and pure."

 

Shamelessly cribbed from Wikipedia.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on April 12, 2011 at 5:49pm

Start by skimming these. Why yes, that is a link to a list of search results...

 

Nathanael, wrong person, wrong year. Wikipedia strikes again? Try this.

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Permalink Reply by Nathanael May on April 13, 2011 at 11:44am

That's what I get for trusting the internet. Next thing you know, I'll be saying that Peet's Coffee was named after a kind of moss.

Ignore me.

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Permalink Reply by Deferio on April 13, 2011 at 6:54pm

Oh no, not again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh1exCwGiY0

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Permalink Reply by Yerbouti Issasheikin on April 20, 2011 at 1:09pm

I'll bite. I've been in coffee for decades and have been around many countries and am very cynical about most movements, coffee or otherwise.  I think "third wave" is fun for its experimentation and entertainment, but I don't think it is necessarily any improvement.  Not only do I not think it is producing viable businesses, it is isn't producing outstanding coffee.

 

This isn't exactly my thinking, but start by checking out this guys page.  He has the wisdom of the ages and his posts on 'third wave' largely echo my thoughts:

http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?s=third+wave

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Permalink Reply by Brady on April 21, 2011 at 4:04am

OK, I guess I can jump in too. I will point out though, that I have neither decades of experience or the "wisdom of the ages", so you may choose to disregard my thoughts on the matter.

 

I think the term has been overused and now carries too much baggage and assumption with it. The professionals on here that have been around for a little while are all tired of discussing it, which is why so few of the regulars have jumped in here. My suspicion is that the topic title alone "thoughts on the third wave" was enough to prevent many people from even opening this thread.

 

I also think that it unnecessarily limits the scope of your discussion. Why not ask instead what we think about the current state of progressive and mass market shops? What do we see that we feel like is pushing the boundaries? What are we doing to move coffee forward in all ways? What do we see that we find exciting? Of the advancements that have been made, which do we like and which do we think are negative?

 

All of these will get you to the same place, but without the baggage.

 

I'll weigh in on these later.

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Permalink Reply by Yerbouti Issasheikin on April 21, 2011 at 9:53am

I get sick of coffee talk, so I often don't follow these various forums.  Much of my dis-interest comes from the fact that they tend to have a cultish feel where 'leaders' dispense truth ("all good coffee is Arabica" or "blends are just used to hide bad coffee") and the many, many followers zealously defend their leaders.  On the plus side, these 'movements' are about people feeding off of each others' energy, so in that sense it isn't all bad that they congregate together.

 

I like your invocation of the big picture.  Part of what gets me is that these 'cults' miss out on the many possibilities that come from other parts of the world, other points in time, and other tastes.  To me, and to the guy at the linked I shared,  there is a lot to be said for accessible coffee, for an appreciation of techniques developed over the ages, and for a more customer-focused view.

 

I am at present in one of the 'third wave' hot spots and I can't help but find that the hype makes the experience even worse.  The coffee is very inconsistent, meaning 1 in 5 is good, but not that good and the other 4 are merely typical.  The fact that it is costly and fussy just further diminishes my enjoyment.  Honestly, I'd rather be back in South India, where the local analogue to Starbucks, Cafe Coffee Day, offers rich, inky espresso that is made with South Indian coffees and costs less than 1 US$.   The croissants are better at the U.S. 'third wave' places, though!

 

Thanks for joining in  to this discussion.  A low key mulling over of this is Ok by me, I just hope none of the gurus' followers target me for retribution!

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Permalink Reply by Shadow on April 22, 2011 at 6:10am

Yerbouti, I surely wouldn't agree that blends are incorporated to hide bad coffee. However, my opinion is that blends offer a sort of "default" that will allow the barista to achieve some decent flavor if things aren't really dialed in for the situation. Of course there has been argument on this discussion for some time and we all have our opinion(s). I find extracting multiple flavor notes from a SO to be much more of a challenge than simply going with a blend.

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Permalink Reply by Yerbouti Issasheikin on April 23, 2011 at 7:00pm

"more of a challenge" doesn't sound that different from "less likely to succeed", at least to my jaded ears.

 

I guess this 'third wave' stuff forgets that coffee isn't a sport or an adventure or an artform (i don't think it is anyway), but it is definitely cuisine and most likely commerce. 

 

I think there are a few 'SO' coffees that make oK espresso, but it is a relatively short list. I found the 'first' and 'second' wave obsession with milds-only espresso annoying enough, so maybe I am close-minded.

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Permalink Reply by Brady on April 24, 2011 at 8:32am

Hey Matthew, you still around?

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Permalink Reply by Shadow on April 24, 2011 at 9:22am

I'm having no problem achieving success using a SO for spro. I'm not into single origins as part of any "wave" and I'm surely not following trends of any sort, just what I happen to like at the moment. Have tried many blends from nationally known artisan roasters over the last few years and still go back to the SO I currently use.

Maybe you choose to use blends to achieve something drinkable with less effort/skill involved. No offense BTW!

 

I must be total opposite then, as I can't/won't tolerate the "latest/greatest" trends in bright note(s) espresso, most of it coming across as lemon peel/citrus based on what I've sampled.    
Yerbouti Issasheikin said:

"more of a challenge" doesn't sound that different from "less likely to succeed", at least to my jaded ears.

 

I guess this 'third wave' stuff forgets that coffee isn't a sport or an adventure or an artform (i don't think it is anyway), but it is definitely cuisine and most likely commerce. 

 

I think there are a few 'SO' coffees that make oK espresso, but it is a relatively short list. I found the 'first' and 'second' wave obsession with milds-only espresso annoying enough, so maybe I am close-minded.

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