What does "quality" mean to you?
If coffee is promoted as "high quality" (whether as beans or as a drink in a cafe) - what do you interpret that to mean? Good quality beans? Skilled baristas making it? Both?
Would cafe owners charge more for what they consider High Quality coffee? Again, is that because of the skills of the barista you employ or the beans themselves?
Do you think consumers view quality coffee in the same way?
Indulge me here, tis for university.
cheers!
bel
Would cafe owners charge more for what they consider High Quality coffee? Again, is that because of the skills of the barista you employ or the beans themselves?
Do you think consumers view quality coffee in the same way?
Indulge me here, tis for university.
cheers!
bel
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Pablo Castaneda on
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Quality? I think to have quality in the coffee business is an art, it takes years to develop not only a good coffee, but the entire process. It takes a lot of education in every step, all the way from harvesting, roasting, cuping and so on. Quality has to be a value in your business and your life.
As an example, Kafes Guatemala has 4 coffee tasters that have to aprove every roasted coffee before it leaves Guatemala, for us our prestige stands in the quality of our coffees and processes, as we are representing our family, our culture, our country.
We have to educate our customers how to make a good cup of coffee: Otherwise they are wasting a good coffee, they have to learn how to make good cup of coffee at home.
Quality is a value that in many ways we are loosing, not only in coffee but in general.
Pablo
www.kafesguatemala.com
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Permalink Reply by javaqueen on
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So, I wonder... you know how we equate coffee with fine wine?
Now, there is a bit of difference, but look at how wine is sold.
First they teach you about the wine and then you make your decision as to which one is right for you.
How can that process be further injected into coffee?
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Permalink Reply by Mike on
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Public cuppings, along side your people who can describe the profiles in each coffee side by side with comparisons to each. Different brewing styles taught. I think there is great similarities in beer tasting as well. I say this beause beer is a drink of common people and not just the rich. I also think that teaching people to buy and treat coffee like produce...Buy and use the sooner to roast date as possible. weekly. A coffee cellar will no longer do.
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Yeah, like the micro brews! Mike, I love the idea... getting back down to the bean, the lowest common denominator of all of our delicious drinks!
Hmmm, wonder if it would ever replace the 'bar scene' as a way to meet someone cool.
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It's a better place to have a conversation. The bar is no longer the quit pub you can't hear your self think let alone talk to someone. Got to be about the beans!
javaqueen said:Yeah, like the micro brews! Mike, I love the idea... getting back down to the bean, the lowest common denominator of all of our delicious drinks!
Hmmm, wonder if it would ever replace the 'bar scene' as a way to meet someone cool.
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Permalink Reply by Andres Castro on
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Hello all
I am glad that this conversation has been reactivated so we could continue to throw some new information regarding this topic. I agree with some of your points of view such as customers are the ultimate judge of the coffee quality but at the same time if they do not have any knowledge or expertise in the quality area certainly sometimes the results could be biased. For this reason educate customers is one part of the puzzle. Another approach is to capture or perceive some tendencies of their most preferred flavor and aromas, coffee shop ambiences and services, etc. so, we as professional could produce or replicate for instance the type flavor/aroma that customers most frequently demand.
I would not like to extend this reply with more details about quality but one key element in the coffee quality process that we have not mention yet is water. We do not pay sometimes the necessary attention to this variable, because believe or not the average ratio of water-coffee in any brew beverage is 99% of water/1% coffee soluble matter.
On the other hand, I would like to mention that some organizations has already started to work on standardizing the quality process. For instance, the Q grader program of the Coffee Quality Institute is training coffee connoisseur to become more reliable when assessing coffees. I would like to mention just one exercise that any reliable taster must pass. For instance, the professional cupper must able to rate coffee flavor attributes in a consistent manner using SCAA Protocol for Cupping Coffee and the SCAA Cupping Form. For example, any value given for attributes such as fragrance/aroma, flavor, aftertaste, acidity, and overall impression must have a statistical similarity with any other cupper that is sharing the same session. This is the main point of this whole process because once any coffee cupper consistently rates coffees he/she might be able to eventually build up a common language to discuss differences and similarities among each coffee.
Andres Castro
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Permalink Reply by Mavin on
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hi Bel, beans are important but the skills of a barista is much more important if wanna quality cup of coffee.
give a barista a horrible bean but if the barista knows his or her stuff, the horrible bean will turn into a magical bean.
barista = quality in a cup.
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A dead bean ...is a dead bean! Barista is only as good as the produce he serves.We need the whole chain! Seed to Cup!
Mavin said:hi Bel, beans are important but the skills of a barista is much more important if wanna quality cup of coffee.
give a barista a horrible bean but if the barista knows his or her stuff, the horrible bean will turn into a magical bean.
barista = quality in a cup.
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Permalink Reply by Peter Tam on
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That is perfectly right. A barista, as many other people, can only best demonstrate the beans, not to creat.
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Permalink Reply by Brady on
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Mavin said:hi Bel, beans are important but the skills of a barista is much more important if wanna quality cup of coffee.
give a barista a horrible bean but if the barista knows his or her stuff, the horrible bean will turn into a magical bean.
Do you taste a difference in your drinks if you use better beans? If not, there is a big problem.
If I'm totally wrong and you do posses this magical level of skill, would you be interested in buying some old inventory? I'd give you a good deal...
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Permalink Reply by Bel Townsend on
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Do I detect a hint of sarcasm there Brady? heh.
I think all of this depends on skill too - barista skills certainly add to the perceived quality of the drink, but also the skills of cuppers, and people tasting the coffee. It is a learned thing - I am beginning to learn the difference between the tastes of coffees from different regions - my Ethiopian stuff tastes a lot smoother than the mexican stuff I've got. I also know when beans are burnt or stale etc. But I couldn't blind-taste, have one mouthful and say "yes that's from Costa Rica's Central Valley" or something.
To me, this means that the concept of quality is highly, highly, subjective - what you think of as being high quality probably has a lot to do with what sort of tastes you prefer, and in turn, that depends on how skilled a taster you are. The more you know about coffee, the more you will be able to judge the 'quality' of it. Does that make sense?
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Only a little :)
I do believe that barista skill is critical. Great beans are worthless in the wrong hands. That said, I feel that placing too much credit on the skills of the barista is misguided and shows a lack of respect for the contributions of the grower, processor, buyer, blender, and roaster.
Baristas are extractors. Our job is to extract the good stuff out of the bean. This is a difficult art, a long and twisty rabbit hole. Nature and the roast process create the good stuff. If we are good, we can get more of the good stuff and less of the bad... but we cannot get what isn't there.
If you disagree, I'd love to have a good discussion. It would be great to be proven wrong... it would make the inventory job a bit easier.
Beyond the pure espresso and coffees, we certainly do have the capability to create. We can combine flavors in new or better ways. We can create new blends by careful selection. We can create amazing textures of milk and beautiful art on the top. We can put all of this together to make great drinks. It is magic.
To another point Bel brings up, I think our preferences are relevant but not everything - quality needs to have a bit of objectivity to it. High-quality to me means "a great example of X" be that a Costa Rican, single malt scotch, Cabernet, doughnut, whatever... regardless of whether or not I happen to like it. I do not really like some styles of Belgian beer, but can recognize a good one when I sip it. I guess to me quality means "those that appreciate X find this to be a great one".
I guess I tend to separate "quality" from "preferred". Maybe I just have a weird way of looking at quality (I was a quality assurance engineer in a previous life).
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